Warning: Car Rental Rip-offs!! Some Require €2,000 - €15,000 Deposit to Decline CDW

Michele Erdvig · Host

Warning: Car Rental Rip-offs!! Some Require €2,000 - €15,000 Deposit to Decline CDW

Michele Erdvig · Host

Warning: Some Car Rentals Require €2000 Deposit to Decline CDW

Itallian Chauffeur · Guru

Found TWO more! evileye evileye

Here is a quote "lifted" from the www.atlascarhire.ie . It appears to be EXACTLY the same wording as their affiliate's web site ( www.thifty.ie ).

"Please be advised that for security reasons, 2000Euro will be CHARGED to your card in case of damage. If there is any damage, this amount can be claimed back through your credit card company. No damage on return will result in a full refund to your card. We will not be held resposible for any exchange rate charges as a result."

What is PARTICULARLY disturbing about this is that it is most clearly a CHARGE -- as opposed to the older practice of just placing a "hold'. The problem is exasperating, since many of the World MasterCards charge hefty 'Foreign Transaction Fees' -- in ADDITION to the 1% that MasterCard charges. A charge for a $2000 'Deposit' would actually cost $2987 after a 3% fee was added (based on an exchange rate of $1.45) but the REFUND would only be for $2900 (the ACTUAL charge) ! ! disbelief

Presumably, since the 'REFUND' is ALSO a Foreign Transaction, you COULD be "HIT" a second time, for an additional 3% -- giving you a net cost of $174. evileye furious evileye

And NEITHER allows for the fact that the Credit Card company ALWAYS gets to chose the most advantageous (to THEM ) rate... evileye

Ill tidings, indeed. . .

Bob

Michele Erdvig · Host

I never see car rental problems addressed in any of Tourism Ireland's surveys or studies. It is either invisible (to them) or the blindfolds are on.

I think we should all start writing letters to the Minister of Tourism. If they get enough maybe they will realize there could possibly, maybe, kind of, sort of, definitely be a problem with Irish car rentals.

Martin Cullen, TD
Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism
23 Kildare Street, Dublin 2
Ireland

Web: http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/

Michele

-- Edited by Michele Erdvig on Sunday 19th of July 2009 06:00:28 PM

Michele Erdvig · Host

Maurice Pratt, Chair, Tourism Renewal Group is soliciting responses:

http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/tourism/tourismrenewal.html

They are doing a survey "to canvass the views of the tourism industry and the wider public, on what you see as the key strategic issues facing Irish tourism".

They go on to say:

"Tourism is one of our largest internationally-traded services and one which directly generates employment and earnings in every part of the country. It also plays a vital role by highlighting our potential attractions for investors, researchers and entrepreneurs. The work of the Tourism Renewal Group will help to make the most of tourism for our future wellbeing. In that light, I would urge anyone with an interest in Irish tourism to take this opportunity to tell us what you think."

Tell them what you think!

Michele

Michele Erdvig · Host

The Car Rental Council of Ireland bills itself as:

"the representative trade organisation for the car rental industry in Ireland. It is recognised by tourism organisations, Failte Ireland and Tourism Ireland Ltd. and contributes to the development of national tourism policies."

That being the case, perhaps copies of letters or emails should be sent to them also: predmond@simi.ie

If you don't tell people what you think, who will?

Michele

Michele Erdvig · Host

I think it would be an excellent idea for all the car companies to be regulated and have to follow the same rules. This would cut way down on confusion for tourists. I often see the shock on their faces when facing reality at the car rental desks.

Michele

Michele Erdvig · Host

I want to update everyone that since I mentioned Dan Dooley Car Rental on my forum they have changed the wording on their website to putting a hold on your credit card when declining CDW not a charge.

Michele

zoofer · Member

You think a 2000 Euro deposit is a little excessive? Check out the fine print from the Ireland insurance and rental information section of the www.sixt.com.website:

General Insurance Conditions

Master Card provides an worldwide coverage for loss and damage to the rental car including loss and damage caused by collision of the car with another object or by upset of the car; further: the car rental contract must be paid by an eligible credit card holder, the eligible credit card holder must be in possession of a valid driver's license for the class of rental car or/and the payment must be made in full by an eligible cardholder who has an eligible account.

If the driver is covered by Master Card Rental Insurance, the customer / driver MUST LEAVE A PRE-AUTHORIZED DEPOSIT FOR EURO 5.000

to cover any damage or loss. If the customer / driver does not have sufficient funds on his/her credit card then the driver must purchase CDW.

YIKES!

KC

yesiree · Guru

Oh my, that's OVER $7,000! That's the full credit limit on my card! It's clear they are trying to make it impossible to use the MC insurance.

FYI - As of last summer, Sixt and Irish Car Rentals were the same company... so don't let the alternate name fool you. We've used them many times with excellent results, but they were among the first to significantly up the deductible and now this... I'm not too happy with them right now.

The Irish car hire companies tend to stick together, so unless there is customer outrage, there's a good chance all the agencies will soon enact these policies... they have a knack for blaming the government, insurance companies and the credit card companies for "forcing" them to adjust their requirements.

There is an excellent opportunity for one of the car rental companies to step up and brand themselves as the "customers' car hire." If an agency promised straightforward pricing/quoting, a willingness to work with MC insurance, a commitment to service and no hidden fees, they would garner our business AND influence the entire industry in Ireland.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Bob & KC,

Can you provide me with links to the specific pages where those charges are listed?

I recently sent Budget an email:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

Do you still require a 2,000 euro deposit for declining CDW? Do you still require an administration fee of EUR € 25 + VAT at 13.5%?

Do you expect to change your policy about that any time soon?

Best,

Michele Erdvig

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Their reply:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello

You may only decline CDW/Theft Protection where you have arranged CDW/Theft Protection cover yourself (certain Gold/Platinum cards allow this). An administration fee of EUR € 25 + VAT at 13.5% will apply for the use of this option. A deposit of EUR € 2000 will be required on pickup for damages. It is the responsibility of the renter to ensure that the credit card insurance is adequate to cover any loss/damage to the vehicle. Otherwise, the renter must assume full financial responsibility.

At the moment our policy is not changing

Regards,

The Reservations Team
Budget Car Rental Ireland

Tel: +353 (0) 90 6627711
Fax: +353 (0) 90 6627744
Email: reservations@budget.ie
Address: Athlone Road, Roscommon, Ireland

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like things are changing rapidly in the car rental biz. If you want your voice heard email or write to the addresses and governmetal agencies above.

Michele

zoofer · Member

Michele,

Here is the sixt.com link, the fourth paragraph down from the top:

And thanks for checking on the Dan Dooley credit card "hold" vs. "charge" issue. There might be a little sunshine peeking out from behind the dark clouds after all.

KC

-- Edited by zoofer on Friday 24th of July 2009 02:37:22 PM

Michele Erdvig · Host

KC,

Thanks for the link. Sometimes it takes forever to find the correct page online.

At least Dan Dooley tells you all the fees up front.

With the others you have to dig a deep hole and look in with a flashlight and magnifying glass to unearth the shards of info you need. I always wanted to be an archaeologist but I don't like dirt under my fingernails! furious

Michele

Itallian Chauffeur · Guru

Michele --

From either of the Atlas or Thrifty Home pages, there is a fill-in Quote Form. If you 'TICK' the 'Waive CDW' bos, BOTH sites open a 'Pop-Up' window that explains the Terms and Conditions.

http://www.thrifty.ie gives you THIS :
https://www.thrifty.ie/booking/cdw_popup.php

http://www.atlascarhire.com gives THIS:

http://www.atlascarhire.com/booking/cdw_popup.php

The two companies ARE affiliated, appear to have the same polocies and pricing structures -- and BOTH seem to use the same Booking Agent software ...

Bob

Roy · Guru

I'm starting to get concerned. I booked through auto europe which in turn sending me to Murrays at Shannon. Apparently Murrys (Eurocar) is now affiliated with sixt.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Roy,

Things are changing rapidly. Last time I rented from Murray's (through Kemwel) there was no problem. But that was last year. What they are up to now is anyone's guess.

Before signing the contract look at each individual charge. If you don't know what it is, ask. Don't sign till you are comfortable with it. Another forum member had "glass and tire" insurance coverage slipped in without their knowledge but signed for it. When getting off a plane with jet lag it is all too easy to overlook some details.

At least you are informed ahead of time, which is not the case with most travelers to Ireland. The car rental desk is a constant experience of "shock and awe".

Michele

Roy · Guru

I have printed the Sixt Terms and Conditions which states " As security (a deposit) for the performance of his duties, the lessee shall be obliged to pay a sum of money at the beginning of the rental period, which sum shall be three times the agreed rental charge (plus other charges agreed such as, e.g. exemptions from liability, delivery charges, airport charges) plus value added tax in the statutory amount applicable from time to time."

That's a far cry from a 5000 euro security. Two years ago I had no problems. Hopefully this Sunday morning will transact smoothly.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Roy,

Bit recently rented from Sixt via Kemwel. Watch your bill very carefully. It seems she was double billed and she is having a real fight getting anything resolved. Be vigilant about checking before signing anything.

Michele

CowboyCraic · Guru

Roy,

Be careful with SixT/Iirsh CAr rental. I have been using Kemwel to book my rentals since I began traveling to Ireland. I have used them because I could prepay and not have any excessive charges or surprises when I picked up or turned in my rental.

On this trip, I prepaid for my rental two months in advance. When I picked it up at Dublin, I noticed that they had this:

Total 364,38 Euros or $502.59 USD

under the line which said Balance due by Hirer - 0

I asked for clarification from the agent at the desk.I asked her which was correct and she said that my balance was zero owed. She said that the other line:

Total 364,38 Euros or $502.59 USD

was what I would have paid had I paid the day I picked up my car. I had saved money by prepaying as I had gotten a better exchange rate.

Imagine my surprise and dismay when a month after the trip, I received my credit card statement and found an additional charge for $502.59. After trading emails back and forth with Kemwel, I was told that the additional $502.59 was for local fees and tarriffs.

I am currently waging war and working through the consumer affairs area of the Tourism office in Ireland.

I will keep everyone posted. In these hard economic times, I am astonished by the shenanigans of the auto rental companies.

Slan Beo, Bit

Roy · Guru

Bit and Michele,

Thank you for the heads up- very disturbing. last thing one wants to deal with so early after flying all night! +

Michele Erdvig · Host

Roy,

You are as prepared as you can be. It will be interesting to find out what your experience is.

Michele

CowboyCraic · Guru

Dia Duit Mo Charas,

To follow up on my debacle, I was contacted by Keith O'Donnell at the Minisitry of tourism. He advised:

The Car Rental Council of Ireland is the representative trade organisation for the car rental industry in Ireland and is recognised by the tourism agencies, Fáilte Ireland and Tourism Ireland. On receipt of a complaint regarding one of its member companies, Mr Paul Redmond, Chief Executive of the Council will engage with the company involved and endeavour to have the complaint addressed. The company, SixT, is a member of the Council. The contact details for the Car Rental Council of Ireland are :
Address : 5 Upper Pembroke Street, Dublin 2
Tel: 353-1-6761690; Fax: 353-1-6619213; E-Mail: predmond@simi.ie; Web: http://www.carrentalcouncil.ie/.

Should this avenue not result in a satisfactory resolution of a complaint customers have the option of taking a case, under Ireland's consumer protection laws, using the Small Claims Procedure operated by the District Court Service throughout Ireland. The service is user-friendly and it costs 15.00 to make a claim. Claims up to a maximum of 2,000 can be made. Full information is available from the Courts Service website www.courts.ie by following the "Small Claims Procedure" Link.

I understand that the National Consumer Agency in Ireland has recently commenced a review of car hire companies looking at their practices and checking their websites to ensure accuracy of information etc. If you wish you can register a complaint with the National Consumer Agency via their consumer website www.consumerconnect.ie by following the "Car Rental Guide" link.

I just read an article on the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0709/1224250318271.html

which sheds a light on the issue, as well.

Slan Beo,

Bit

-- Edited by CowboyCraic on Thursday 30th of July 2009 02:23:07 PM

Michele Erdvig · Host

Bit,

Thanks for the update. Sounds like "pass the buck". One department gets rid of the problem and sends it to the next one down the line.

The portion of the website that was not quoted to you was "It is recognised by tourism organisations, Failte Ireland and Tourism Ireland Ltd. and contributes to the development of national tourism policies."

I don't understand why car rentals in Ireland are not standardized and regulated. Probably because tourists are not citizens of Ireland and do not make themselves heard. It is a political thing.

Michele

Michele Erdvig · Host

Warning: Car Rental Rip-offs!! Some Require €2,000 - €15,000 Deposit to Decline CDW

murphy · Guru

RE: Warning: Some Car Rentals Require €2000 Deposit to Decline CDW

Michele Erdvig · Host

RE: Warning: Car Rental Rip-offs!! Some Require €2,000 - €15,000 Deposit to Decline CDW

Michele Erdvig · Host

Are rates skyrocketing?

While looking at the various rules that are currently being added to car rentals in Ireland I have also looked at quotes on the various sites. To me it seems that rates in Sept/Oct has doubled or tripled since I last rented in April/May.

I am very puzzled by that. confuse

The economy is very slow, hotels, accommodations and even castles all over Ireland are offering many specials and lower rates to attract customers, yet car rentals are going up, up, up. Could the few tourists visiting Ireland right now be paying more to make up for the loss? Your guess is as good as mine.

Have fun shopping!

Michele

CowboyCraic · Guru

Michele,

It would seem that hard times are upon Murray or so it would seem in this article from the Irish Times July 9, 2009 edition. Perhaps somebody should tell them that how they treat their customers will reflect on their bottom line?

I am having a very hard time juxtaposing the current economic downturn in Ireland with this wreckless abandon and disregard toward the customer that the auto rental companies seem to be showing. Perhaps they truly believe that through such practices they alone will turn the economy around.

It is quite the puzzle. I, of course, have heard nothing from any of the emails I have sent out. My next step is to contact Chris Elliott at National Geographic Travel. He has said he would look into it for me. He seems to get the answers quickly.

At this rate, it will be a long time before I can travel over again.

Slan Beo, Bit

dbeavers · Member

I was advised to call for Attracta Lyndon at the Dan Dooley office in NJ. Glad I did. She informed that most of the Platinum/Gold cards from Mastercard no longer include Ireland in their blanket coverage policy. She gave me the number to call, and they verified they have discontinued coverage for Ireland/Northern Ireland rentals.

The good new is that the CD policy only added $40 to the rental, and the policy that covers the glass and minor repairs was only $35 extra. Yes, those are accurrate quotes in US$ from the NJ office.

Thanks for the education here, it helped me avoid a big mistake as well as saving me a lot of time.

Dennis
Ireland bound in August

Michele Erdvig · Host

Dennis,

Glad to hear you have your car rental sorted out. It is a maze out there and Dooley is one of the few that gives you all the costs up front. Did you also get Super CDW?

There are a few MasterCards that still cover US citizens in Ireland but they are few and far between. Some Visa credit cards cover Canadian citizens in Ireland. I always suggest people check, double check and triple check to see if their card covers CDW in Ireland before declining. And of course, all that info is on my car rental page for everyone to read.

I'm delighted to hear you are set for your trip. Let us hear back as to how everything (car and itinerary) works out for you.

Michele