So... what if we want to MOVE to Ireland?

Green Dragon · Guru

So... what if we want to MOVE to Ireland?

CowboyCraic · Guru

I would say scout ahead and make sure you have at least a six month reserve cash fund.

I have a friend, who has dual citizenship already, who moved back to Ireland in April of this year. They rented a home sight unseen prior to arriving there. THey were quite shocked by the residence they were shown, night and day difference from what they were shown in the pictures. Then the landlady raised the rent after two months.

Also, make sure that you have a job solidly lined up before moving over, both of you. Her husband had a "guaranteed" job which petered out after a month and a half. They have sice returned to the United States.

It is expensive to live in Ireland. Especially in the major cities. Do your homework, research, research, research, plot & plan.

Slan Beo, Bit

Michele Erdvig · Host

Christy,

I will get the ball rolling with some brief comments. I'm sure everyone else will chime in too.

First, consider the economy right now. There is a downturn in Ireland as there is in the US and elsewhere. People with high-paying jobs are now seeking lower paying jobs that were abandoned to immigrints in the past 10 prosperous years. Looks like the Celtic Tiger is just limping along at the moment.

Consider checking with nursing associations in Ireland first. Being an accountant will probably be very different in Ireland as there are completely different tax rules, etc.

Check with the Irish Embassy to find out the rules of a move and work permit.

I'm sure a whole lot of questions will come up during your research.

Michele

Green Dragon · Guru

This is something we are thinking about starting the ball rolling for now, with the possibility of actually making the move in, say, 2010. We know it will take lots of time, and probably a trip or two over there before we go to stay.

I know that as a CPA in the US, I am considered 'partly qualified' as a Chartered Accountant in the UK, which will probably have similar rules to Ireland. The good news is my undergraduate degree was a double major in Accounting and International business, and I currently work for a company that has manufacturing facilities in the EU (Germany). I will be getting international accounting standards training for a while here.

My friend is already a traveling nurse, so this might just be a different type of travel for her.

Thanks!

youngka · Guru

Christy, Thank you so much for writing with this question. I have been, somewhat, interested in what a move entails. Good information from Bit and Michele - Thanks Youngka

Green Dragon · Guru

We have a couple avenues to explore. I qualify as a 'highly skilled immigrant' for the UK program, so I could, if I wanted to, live in the UK up to one year before securing a work permit and a job. That would make it a lot easier to find a job in Ireland, I believe. Also, Kim and I are in contact with a Gaelic language group that sponsors people to live and work in Ireland, and we are both starting to learn the language. That's another option. The third will be to get a job/work permit for Ireland from where we are in the US, and then move over there. That would be the smartest, IMHO.

Anchoress · Guru

Please, take great care.

It is not the job issue, or the language etc.

There are huge and deep cultural differences betwen the two countries that make living here vastly different and very difficult for US folk.

The Methodist Church, which has tied accommodation and a lot of support for its pastors, has learned this and will not put US ministers over for more than 2 or three years, By which time they are very eager to leave.

We will not now put our people over. I am English and I just about cope most of the time. But it is "just about"

The things that appeal to you most about Ireland are the things that will make it very hard to live here.

That "laid back" attitude? Try getting work done on the house etc. They are unreliable and feckless.

The few who are not are those who emigrate.

We know many US folk here who regret deeply their move and because they burned their bridges are stuck here and very unhappy and even living like recluses.

And as Michele says, professional work is very different here.

As are services that you take for grated there.

Green Dragon · Guru

Actually, having moved from very metropolitan Miami to laid back Alachua (north central Florida) has changed my perspective a lot, for the better. I LIKE the more relaxed way people do things, even if it's something I need to get done. I admire the no-hurry attitude as a healthy way to look at life. It's something I could learn from.

I do hear what you are saying, and I know the culture shock of living in a place is much different from visiting. I won't be burning all my bridges - I still have options :)

Anchoress · Guru

Shaking my head here.

It is not a relaxed way or a no hurry way; it is simply things not getting done - period.

We could fill several books with "Irish stories" that would be a best seller, and few would realise that this is the only life here.

Imagine a woman buying best steak at a small country shop so she can call the plumber who has faild to return to finish a vital job to come back by saying she wil cook steak for him.

And imagine a situation we had, of a flooded kitchen on a Saturday early evening, to call round all the local plumbers, builders etc to find that they were all in the pubs and could not be disturbed.

An English lady, needing a basic plumbing system in an old cottage; ie no facilities or water at all. Builder comes highly recommended; turns up fivehalf days in the first two weeks because he has a drink problem.

This would drive you crazy. Because this is the norm here. The Irish are great promisers. Our first winter here we were promised so much firewood we would have needed a barn, but never one stick turned up.

The same with knitted items and wool we are offered; we would need a huge house to accommodate it all, but not a bit has arrived.

That is their charm; but also their downfall. Things just never get done and the stress and hassle are appalling to US folk, because over there you have good service etc.

It is not healthy in any way.

By all means slow down there, but keep Ireland as a refreshment for holidays.

Medical care, and other services are appalling also. Here the only thing that works at all is the new NOWDOC scheme.

What you see when you are here is what the Irish want you to see to get your money. If that sounds harsh, forgive me. They rip Americans off all the time. With a smile and a bit of blarney.

what Bit says about a rental is typical, sadly. We have a little more clout now as we have new legisaltion to protect tenants, and the PTRB and Threshhold

We now rent accommodation as at least that means the landlord has to act if things go wrong. Although at one place it was in the lease that he cut the huge expanse of grass.... it got done twice in two years and we gave up asking or believing promises. He would have been mortally offended if we got anyone else in to do it; even if we could have afforded that.

Ireland is a glory and a beauty; but you get the best as a visitor here. You really do. Protected by those you stay with. You see the heritage and the old time things. And the craft work; and the music etc.

Without the hassles of living here.
With all the fair promises and great intentions; you never see that these are simply empty words.

It takes a long time to adjust to that.

One interesting thing we find in Canada where there are so many Irish. They all speak so lovingly of "the auld county" but ask if they would ever return and there is a horrified NO.

As Michele says,we are in recession now and jobs are being lost at an increasing rate.

Actually, having moved from very metropolitan Miami to laid back Alachua (north central Florida) has changed my perspective a lot, for the better. I LIKE the more relaxed way people do things, even if it's something I need to get done. I admire the no-hurry attitude as a healthy way to look at life. It's something I could learn from.

I do hear what you are saying, and I know the culture shock of living in a place is much different from visiting. I won't be burning all my bridges - I still have options :)

-- Edited by Anchoress at 01:30, 2008-11-11

Michele Erdvig · Host

Green Dragon,

Anchoress lives in the real Ireland. Things she must deal with on a daily basis. I have friends who live in Ireland but visit the USA frequently. If they did not have family in Ireland they would much prefer to live in the US. We are spoiled here. It is such a vast country with so many people, businesses vie for our business...and money.

One incident I remember my friends telling me about is the "refund policies" at Irish stores. Basically once you buy it and walk out of the store it is yours. Defective? Too bad. Shrinks in the wash? Loose weight. Thinking of buying an extra box of tiles when re-doing your bathroom and then returning it if you don't need it? No way. Got a complaint about your meal at a restaurant? Smile and tell them everything is brilliant. When I refused to eat a piece of dried out cake at a cafe and demanded my money back they were absolutely stunned. The girl admitted she did not know what to do as no one had ever asked for a refund before. An Irish person would not have dared get their money back.

I have some other Irish friends who live in the US now. When I ask if they would ever return on a permanent basis they shudder. Reality is very different from the dream.

Michele

P.S. Perhaps Corey will chime in on this one as he lives in Ireland for part of the year.

Anchoress · Guru

Michele; thank you! I had been thinking I had been too harsh maybe... Never heard that one before!!!

Is that legal? lol! I saw a sign in a shop last week that no refunds, only vouchers to use there. So they get your money either way:)

And all you say is exactly what has been found always. It is so small and backward a country. I have been here almost seven years now and came from another remote rural setting, so in many ways it has been "easier": I still get caught out by the "promisers"; or by folk saying "Immediately" and nothing happens for weeks.

But to have the dream is maybe important also; as long as you know the difference.

After mass one day when I lived where there was no water supply save rainwater, I chatted with some old ladies, who started reminiscing about their lives in similar settings. I asked, "Would you go back?" "NO WAY!:"

Only we incomers use the old cottages.

And I read when you think there should be driers and dishwashers in self catering places... Simple living means different things to different people .

There is great beauty here, and space. And the heritage. Enjoy that then.

We all need that refreshment.

Michele Erdvig wrote:

Green Dragon,

Anchoress lives in the real Ireland. Things she must deal with on a daily basis. I have friends who live in Ireland but visit the USA frequently. If they did not have family in Ireland they would much prefer to live in the US. We are spoiled here. It is such a vast country with so many people, businesses vie for our business...and money.

One incident I remember my friends telling me about is the "refund policies" at Irish stores. Basically once you buy it and walk out of the store it is yours. Defective? Too bad. Shrinks in the wash? Loose weight. Thinking of buying an extra box of tiles when re-doing your bathroom and then returning it if you don't need it? No way. Got a complaint about your meal at a restaurant? Smile and tell them everything is brilliant. When I refused to eat a piece of dried out cake at a cafe and demanded my money back they were absolutely stunned. The girl admitted she did not know what to do as no one had ever asked for a refund before. An Irish person would not have dared get their money back.

I have some other Irish friends who live in the US now. When I ask if they would ever return on a permanent basis they shudder. Reality is very different from the dream.

Michele

P.S. Perhaps Corey will chime in on this one as he lives in Ireland for part of the year.

Green Dragon · Guru

Very interesting details! Thank you both for giving me the real story. I don't think it will deter me, but again, this is a future plan and dream, nothing immediate yet :)

I've gotten the literature on the requirements to qualify as a CPA in Ireland (I'm one here in the US). I will at least start the wheels in motion.

yesiree · Guru

I have to say that living in Ireland...even if only for part of the year...takes some getting used to. The American concept of time and the Irish concept of time often seems quite different. And I could add to Anchoress' list.

There's the trademan who promises to arrive on Thursday...two and a half weeks later he says "I meant next Thursday, not two Thursdays ago."

Bank holidays are the biggest excuse I've found for everything. So many people put EVERYTHING off until the Bank holiday weekend hits, sometimes procrastinating for two weeks. Then a week after the holiday, they feign "you know, with the Bank holiday and all." It's not that they don't know they are in the wrong, it just seems that culturally, I'm supposed to accept that excuse, and we're supposed to move on from there. That's not how most Americans would naturally deal with things, so we have the urge to debate the excuse...which never makes us look good to the Irish.

Customer service tends to be all about telling the customer what they want to hear. "It'll be in on Tuesday." Then..."on Thursday." Then..."The shipment didn't come in." Then..."They don't make it any more." To an American, it sounds like lying. To the Irish, it's supposed to be the polite way to handle things.

There is also a lot of bureaucracy that seems to pop up out of no where. Sure, Dublin says all you need is a stamp on your passport for a certain designation, but no one knows the process for getting that stamp. Worse yet, my US friends Tony and Liza were trying to get the exact same stamp... although they have homes in the same county, they had to register in two different towns in two different offices, pay two different rates and Liza's stamp expires 6-months sooner (and some locals suspect it is because Tony had a Dr. in front of his name - I have no idea).

All this said, not everything in Ireland is like this. In fact, there are many situations where the Irish do things better than in the US...or if nothing else, just different. Don't forget all the nonsense we put up with right here at home in the US (need I mention the DMV, road construction, insurance costs, the IRS and frequent flier miles). For most, living in Ireland is not better or worse than the US; it's just different.

That in mind, I would not discourage anyone from looking at moving to Ireland. However, realize that no matter how much tough love, reality-checks we offer, you're still wearing rose-colored glasses...and it's the things you aren't anticipating that will get to you.

I'd suggest you expect everything to take at least three times longer and cost more than you thought.

Good luck and keep us posted.

-- Edited by yesiree at 13:33, 2008-11-11

CowboyCraic · Guru

Things aren't much different when you are in the rural raeas of the Southwest United States. Except here, we call it "Mexican Standard Time" or living in the land of mañana (tomorrow). When somebody tells me they will get to something "tomorrow", I chuckle and repeat the words of my grandma. "

Mañana no se aqui" (Tomorrow doesn't come here)

The concept of "I'll be there tuesday at 9" and having them show up the following Thursday at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, putting in a few hours and then leaving "to get supplies", only they don't come back for a week or two, maybe three. That is "mañana" time where I live. I just shrug my shoulders and go about my regular routine. Mañana always comes around eventually.

I have had the same experiences in Ireland when I travel there. Bear in mind that I come over to lecture, host workshops and perform. It took me a short while to understand that sometimes just showing up and saying "I'm here, where do you want me to set-up?" worked out far better than trying to make early arrangements. The looks of pondering and perplexity that cross their faces as they try to recall just when they set-up whatever it is that I am doing is priceles. Ineveitably though, they rally and a wonderful time is had by all.

I guess those things that have been described, plumbers not showing up, work that keeps being postponed with eth obligatory "milk" words have been a fabric of my own history for so long that it feels normal to encounter them in Ireland.

Not being able to reach someone for assistance in the evening because they are at the pub? That is the equivalent of trying to find anyone to help with anything during seista time in the land of mañana.

It is all a matter of perspective. Unlike my friends who rented without seeing the property. I would never dream of renting anything sight unseen. I would also not rent anything with problems to big for me to be able to fix myself. I have become quite the handy gal whilst waiting for mañana. biggrin

The point being is that what Anchoress is describing is not exclusive to Ireland. "Irish time" becomes "Bayou time" in Louisiana, "mañana time" here in the Southwest and can be described differently in many others areas, worldwide.

As long as anyone moving to any foriegn area goes into it with their eyes wide open and a healthy respective for cultural differences, they will fair well. Any time you move to your "ideal" vacation spot and try to establish a sense of permanency, you run the risk of realizing it is not the picture perfect scenario you had imagined. Yet, despite its flaws, it can be even better.

Slan Beo, Bit

Michele Erdvig · Host

Bit,

Great post. You are right that it is all about adjusting to where you are. Each place has its own reality.

One thing I forgot to mention was the TV tax (you have to pay yearly for each set). In the area where my friends live the garbage pick-up is extremely strict. You must pay (a lot) for each plastic bag and buy it from the garbage company (not the store). Each bag has a sticker with your name on it. You pay per pound for it to be taken away. If there are things in it that are not allowed it is returned to you and you have to start over again.

I will add things as I think of them.

Michele

Green Dragon · Guru

Thank you, please do! I did rent the mini-series 'A Year in Provence' as a reality check to what I might encounter - the main characters retire to Provence from London, and come across many of the same problems with builders, promises, xenophobia, etc. I considered it research :)

I also watched shows set in Ireland like Ballykissangel, and took note of the work ethics of some of the characters :)

I was aware of the TV tax, as the UK has that as well. I think there is an internet and a cable tax also?

I am not very handy, though I'm learning some stuff from my dad. I will not likely get a place that needs any work to move in, and hopefully will be able to do little stuff on my own. I've certainly been stuck at home for days waiting for cable repairmen and such here in Florida, so this isn't completely new territory.

And yes, I have on rose-colored glasses. They are a permanent tint on my life :P

Anchoress · Guru

Bit and Corey; while I read you, leaving anyone. let alone a disabled pensioner, in a flooded house in winter is far more than "manana".

It shows a total irresponsibilty that is deeply rooted in Irish life.

Much of rural Ireland has no broadband ( Is that what you mean by cable?) still and some areas still have the old "wind up"phones and no internet access.

At Glencolumcille it was barely 16.8 speed and no hopes of any improvement although they keep promising.

Ireland is changing, which is why ballyk is so misleading.

It is more "sinister" and less friendly than that.

You get a kind of "honeymoon" period when you are first here; they are curious, and you have money to spend. Or with us, we are Nuns and that is respected here.
After a wee while, it all changes, as they get used to you.

Interest dies away and so does service. So we get used to taking up promises immediately as we know that next week the person will have forgotten and moved on.

Shows like Ballyk romanticise and humourise too much.

Our former landlord summed it up. "Ireland is not Ireland any more"

The velvet glove that is what appeals has worn very thin.

There are huge influxes of immigrants, especially from Poland. Which affects the job market and culture greatly.

Polish people are the direct opposite of the Irish of course. Industrious, reliable. Catholic also and already their priests are being employed here.

One butcher's shop in Donegal Town stocks almost excusively Polish groceries, and in the Thrift Shop Engish is rarley heard. Irish never. Only once have we heard Irish spoken in Donegal Town and that was by an NI resident.

And they are committed to an allocation of refugees per year also now; this is not generally known. Several hundred Burmese are being acclimatised in Mayo and now Congo refugees are arriving for the same process.

Just now we are suffering severe cutbacks on health and education; there are not enough nursing jobs for our own trained nurses.

We have tried recently to get green cards for our own people to no effect. Well-qualifed folk.

So the local population are becoming more and more protective and clannish - and more greedy and grasping sadly. And this is natural of course; these are old Irish families who have got used to a higher standard of living and no way are they going to let it go without a fight.

We survive because we are no threat, and maybe those who do best here are those who retire here with a private income eg pension. No job seeking thus. We take nothing away and give a great deal.

And more and more we find help from incomers; animal welfare is one area where all the real help is from foreigners.

But still we will not now put any more of our people over. Even to Dublin.

Green Dragon wrote:

Thank you, please do! I did rent the mini-series 'A Year in Provence' as a reality check to what I might encounter - the main characters retire to Provence from London, and come across many of the same problems with builders, promises, xenophobia, etc. I considered it research :)

I also watched shows set in Ireland like Ballykissangel, and took note of the work ethics of some of the characters :)

I was aware of the TV tax, as the UK has that as well. I think there is an internet and a cable tax also?

I am not very handy, though I'm learning some stuff from my dad. I will not likely get a place that needs any work to move in, and hopefully will be able to do little stuff on my own. I've certainly been stuck at home for days waiting for cable repairmen and such here in Florida, so this isn't completely new territory.

And yes, I have on rose-colored glasses. They are a permanent tint on my life :P

-- Edited by Anchoress at 02:01, 2008-11-12

youngka · Guru

Hi, Just read what was on this whole page -- WHEW! We, too, were thinking of moving to Ireland. After all that was said, I think we will just stick to a month to maybe 4 months stay. I can, very much, understand what you are saying, thank you all for all the info! Youngka

Anchoress · Guru

youngka; that seems to work best for folk. Many US and Canadian folk we know here, say they "have" to go home for part of the year.

They enjoy Ireland as long as they can do that:)

To see what the letting scene is, have a look at..

http://www.daft.ie/lettings/

But have someone here who knows what the standards you require are and can look for you.

Irish auctioneers are a law unto themselves.

For glimpses into this, try boards ie on the accommodation pages.

Green dragon; there is nothing wrong with rose-coloured glasses, in their right place. A major move with all that that entails for you is the time to take them off and see clearly.

The worst language I have ever heard - and they can cuss here believe me - was from one of your countrymen, to a group of Irish workmen doing some work there. Never was sure if he knew we were there or if it would have made any difference. Learned new words that day:)

They have been here seven years and have still not adjusted. Now they live like recluses. And they cannot afford to move back, especially now the property market has foundered. They really believed they could live here full time and be American still.
Because that is what it comes to, is it not? You can never be Irish or live as they live.

And no one is trying to deter anyone here.

The Europeans who do best here do so by choosing a town where there are many of their compatriots. Ardara is full of Germans thus.

P.S I would never myself try to move to the US or Canada.... Not unless I was posted there.. The lifestyles are just too different in too many ways.

Hi, Just read what was on this whole page -- WHEW! We, too, were thinking of moving to Ireland. After all that was said, I think we will just stick to a month to maybe 4 months stay. I can, very much, understand what you are saying, thank you all for all the info! Youngka

-- Edited by Anchoress at 05:48, 2008-11-12

-- Edited by Anchoress at 05:50, 2008-11-12

-- Edited by Anchoress at 05:54, 2008-11-12

Keany · Veteran Member

Green Dragon,

I say go on with your planning and disregard all the negative comments. Its wonderful to experience other cultures. No one culture, including ours, is the best. Ireland is different, not worse, than ours.

Please keep posting about your progress. My husband and I [well mostly me] are considering a part time move to Ireland for our retirement, so I am living vicariously through your planning!

Green Dragon · Guru

Thanks, Keaney. We are still planning it, but it's a slow, long plan. I have many things to do before I can consider doing that, including certifying as a CPA in Ireland (which involves studying and some qualification tests) and selling our house (which we are not going to even try for a year or two, until we start recovering from the housing slump).

yesiree · Guru

It's true...a move to Ireland is NOT a bad thing. If it was, I wouldn't have a home there and wouldn't spend so much time there. Plus, each situation is individual.

Let me share a few positive things I think have helped me and several of my friends who have relocated to Ireland from the US, Canada, England, Australia and Poland. My points tend to focus on life after you move, but they might help.

Be a great neighbor. Despite their well-documented friendly disposition, the Irish tend to be more private than most Americans. It may take longer before you are considered part of the local scene. You will need to genuinely show that you embrace the local community and that you are there with an open heart and looking to make lifelong relationships.

It's easier when your friends are where you live. Whether you move to live where your friends are or make friends where you live, the stronger your relationships with the people near you, the better your experience will be.

Choose your location wisely. Transportation and technology is available everywhere in Ireland, but the options can vary greatly based on region.

Learn the "real" system. Despite the hours of research, ultimately you'll be dealing with people and not documents...and once you get there, you'll rely partly on your research but more so on relationships (as an artist and an accountant, I think you know how hard it can be to for people to reconcile what they want as an artist vs. what the IRS wants...think about your research as the IRS and the process of dealing with people as dealing with an artist trying to make sense of their taxes - I hope that analogy makes sense to more people than just me).

People in cities tend to more used to outsiders than those in the countryside. Therefore, in the cities, you are less "exotic" and your inquiries are less unusual. Ireland is a recent hub for immigration, so there are changes both good and bad.

Answer your financial questions before you make the leap (which you are clearly doing). Some people have a high tolerance for the unknown and for squeezing a penny, but having a plan that will keep you out of the poor house will put the focus on experience rather than survival.

If you're asking an Irish friend for advice, ask them to help you list the pros and cons of your choices. My Irish friends tend to be hesitant to criticize a choice I may be considering...even though I desperately want their full-on honest opinion.

You sound like you're going into to this with an open mind...and we're probably giving you more information than you could ever want.

youngka · Guru

So many ideas to refer to! I bought a book to see what I could understand more about Ireland. It just happened to be a true story about a couple from New York that moved to Ireland and what they faced by doing so -- it is really very interesting and parallels a lot of what you all have been saying. O Come Ye Back to Ireland (our first year in County Clare) by Niall Williams & Christine Breen. I ordered mine on Amazon.com. They have several books and I also got The Pipes are Calling - Our Jaunts Through Ireland. Just more for everyone to read, but good! The book tells how they moved to Dublin, to stay with relatives, and how LONG it took them to get a bed delivered to County Clare, how hard it was to get a car, and telephone -- to mention a few. I am pretty sure one or both of these were list awhile ago when everyone was writing about good books to get........youngka

Michele Erdvig · Host

Keany,

We don't mean to be negative. We just want Christy to know the realities as well as the dream. Once she knows what she has to deal with, like with any new place, she can adjust. But it is best to know first so she is not surprised and has no regrets.

Michele

stewh · Guru

This is a very interesting discussion. Christy has received a lot of honest, straightforward advice that has been, for the most part, constructive. I think we have to be careful not to resort to generalization and bigotry. Of course there are differences between life in North America and life in Ireland. There also huge differences between life in Dublin and life in rural Co. Donegal as there are between life in New York City and life in rural Oklahoma. The danger is to make generalizations like "They are unreliable and feckless" (italics are mine) that result in unwarranted value jugements. For centuries the Irish were victims of colonization and of prejudice in their homeland and abroad. No society is perfect. I believe that all of the posters to this great site have, in one way or another, a love for Ireland. Let's not forget that. Christy, I'm sure you will do careful research before making a move. It seems you have the soul of an artist as do many of my Irish friends. Good Luck.
Stewart

Anchoress · Guru

Michele; thank you. You are so right.

stewh; .. there is sucn a thing as a national character, and this is strong here so what you think are generalisations are truth. Because that is the general trend and gerneral behaviour.

Please do not throw these accusations out? thank you.

n all our years here,we have met very few who are not in this mould. One was a young man who was totally reliable; he emigrated to New Zealand because he just could not live in Ireland any more.

We are the least "bigoted" folk there are; the work we do here ensures that. And there is no way any of your other 'accusations" fit either.

We respect folk here mightily; more so because we know what they are like and work around that. Not judging; simply stating that this is so and that that has to be seen and accepted to live and work alongside.

And to survive:) And enjoy the life here.

Blindness is the real bigotry. Because then you walk all over sensitivities and that is how victimisation comes about.

When someone offers us wool or knitted things that we know we will never receive, we thank and bless them. Because the kindness is in the thought. And this happens all the time. Not a generalisation; a simple fact. They are feckless and unreliable. That is not in any way a judgement any more than saying that many Irish folk have red hair. It is a basic characteristic.

One that those who come here for holidays will never see.

We can all chuckle about the way they say. Soon and then nothing happens for weeks. But if you live here and do not respect and know that there can be dreadful conequences. Like our flooded kitchen that time.

And Dublin is little different.

I came here with rose coloured glasses. Unaware and unwary. I wish I had known then what I know now, believe me.

Love Ireland and love the people; more because you know them for what they are - and what they are not.

I was just writing to Dude about the DHL delivery man y'day who called and demanded in wheedling terms that we meet him somewhereso he would not need to come out here to deliver a packet... This kind of thing is so common and you have to make sure that your life does nto get totally disrupted

We have made that adjustment, but folk from the US like that angry man has not. so he keeps banging his head against the brick wall of "the Irish"

We know now when to "give out" and when to walk away. Y'day was a day to "give out" mildly without involving emotionally.

It takes years.

When we moved here, there was no phone in. We had been told else by the landlord. We simply organised that with eircom; had to be very forceful to ge thework done... But we avoided a nasty confrontation with the lanllord

Often ti takes so much time and energy of course. Most of those we can call on for help eg re animal cruelty here - and please do nto get me started on the way MOST irish treat their dogs - are incomers; English, Welsh, German.

But again, it takes years to build up those connections and to know who among the Irish we can trust within very narrow limits. Respecting their limitations. And thus staying friends with them.

The man who gave us the Nunmobile was one such burst of impulsive gratitude to us; and we hear from hiim from time to time. As is the butcher who saves scraps for our dogs... In every case we share our Prayer and our giving with them and ask little... patience is everything, and not alienating.

And never relying on anyone.

stewh wrote:

This is a very interesting discussion. Christy has received a lot of honest, straightforward advice that has been, for the most part, constructive. I think we have to be careful not to resort to generalization and bigotry. Of course there are differences between life in North America and life in Ireland. There also huge differences between life in Dublin and life in rural Co. Donegal as there are between life in New York City and life in rural Oklahoma. The danger is to make generalizations like "They are unreliable and feckless" (italics are mine) that result in unwarranted value jugements. For centuries the Irish were victims of colonization and of prejudice in their homeland and abroad. No society is perfect. I believe that all of the posters to this great site have, in one way or another, a love for Ireland. Let's not forget that. Christy, I'm sure you will do careful research before making a move. It seems you have the soul of an artist as do many of my Irish friends. Good Luck.
Stewart

youngka · Guru

Anchoress, I really enjoy reading the way you write and what you have to say. The part of your last post: "We are the least "bigoted" folk there are; the work we do here ensures that. And there is no way any of your other 'accusations" fit either. We respect folk here mightily; more so because we know what they are like and work around that. Not judging; simply stating that this is so and that that has to be seen and accepted to live and work alongside."

Each time we have been in Ireland from the first visit I noticed exactly what you said. The people, the news on TV about this and that in Ireland, etc. I saw and admired the Irish for being so diversified and enjoying it. Being more respectful and courtesous to us when my husband was ill and having problems walking, and how someone would just stop as they walked by and take his suitcase for him and ask if he needed anything -- more than once.....
We really love Ireland. We are slowly facing the fact that we may not be able to return next year and are really bumed out.

Green Dragon: It sounds like the plans you have job wise and green card, etc. will work out fine. I think a problem we would have is adjusting to the very nice slow pace, but loving it once we settle in. I have been many places and I love Ireland the most. If you already like it and have been over on vacation, you will love living there I am very sure. My son in law is moving to Holland on Dec 3rd. with wife and our two grandchildren and I think it is so exciting for the children and their parents. Great opportunity, wish I had done it earlier. GOOD LUCK AND ENJOY AND SMOOTH SAILING/MOVING!!! youngka

-- Edited by youngka at 03:06, 2008-11-14

-- Edited by youngka at 03:06, 2008-11-14

Green Dragon · Guru

Thanks everyone! Keep the information coming, I'm sure I'm not the only one benefitting from the good and the bad examples!

Ireland is where I feel at home, the land itself calls to me. That overrides a lot of the problems dealing with people. I'm used to being self-sufficient, and I prefer it that way. We shall see :)

youngka · Guru

Green Dragon, Like I said GOOD LUCK AND ENJOY A SMOOTH SAILING/MOVING. You are so lucky! youngka

Anchoress · Guru

Make sure you buy a return ticket....

Thanks everyone! Keep the information coming, I'm sure I'm not the only one benefitting from the good and the bad examples!

Ireland is where I feel at home, the land itself calls to me. That overrides a lot of the problems dealing with people. I'm used to being self-sufficient, and I prefer it that way. We shall see :)

-- Edited by Anchoress at 00:53, 2008-11-15

-- Edited by Anchoress at 01:04, 2008-11-15

-- Edited by Anchoress at 03:00, 2008-11-15