County Antrim...need advice, please

Melissa5 · Guru

County Antrim...need advice, please

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

I do now have four places recommended in Co. Antrim. I was there in Sep/Oct and was very busy looking around.

I have stayed at Craig Park and Crockatinny. Of those two I would have to say that the hosts at Craig Park can't be beat. One of my clients recently commented that it was a "dream B&B" based on the hosts. It is an old farmhouse that is way out in the countryside so extremely quiet at night. Yet it is only a few miles from the town of Bushmills with pubs and restaurants.

Crockatinny (near Newcastle) was very pleasant and the rooms on the second floor have little balconies overlooking the ocean. It, too, was quiet but since it is a guesthouse that is "managed" for the owners you won't see too much of the manager unless there is something in particular you need.

If it is wonderful hosts you want then Craig Park is the place. You will probably want to reserve the two front rooms. If you are standing in front of the B&B, the room on the right would be best for you as the bathroom is larger. The one on the left would be good for your daughters. David & Jan are currently in Australia for the holidays so be patient if you email them.

Northern Ireland still has smoking in the pubs and restaurants. But usually they have a no-smoking section in restaurants.

For your drive along the coast, there are plenty of cafes, pubs and restaurants along the way. But if the weather is great, how fun to have a picnic! There are lots of little coves to explore along the way such as White Park Bay, Ballintoy, etc. I suggest exploring each one. Some other things:

Carrick-a-rede Rope Bridge

Kinbane Castle (if the pathway is open)

Torr Head Drive

Cushendun

Carrickfergus Castle

On your last night if you decide to stay in Malahide you could see Malahide Castle. It is very historic.

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Michele, Craig Park in Bushmills sounds nice and the hosts sound like great people to meet! That makes a stay more memorable.

When you stayed at Craig Park, did you venture out to pubs or restaurants at night? And if so, did you feel it was difficult finding your way back to Craig Park at night? I have heard some folks on fodors who stayed somewhere in Ireland "way out in the country" say they had trouble finding their b&b at night...they said it was very dark especially on the type of roads that are walled in! There was no light at all, they said...I can see how walled-in roads without street lights would indeed be dark at night...Now that was in a different part of Ireland though. But I wanted to see your opinion of the relative ease of finding Craig Park at night after visiting a pub or restaurant?

Thanks for recommending specific rooms at Craig Park. Now will you please kick me? I need to finish up this trip! I keep re-hashing endless possibilities for the last half of the trip...you know, keep it like it is now, with County Antrim and Belfast/Newtownards, and then just 1 night near Dublin airport...change it back to include more of Dublin...change it too...ahhh! No more changes! Kick me please.

Thanks for the great suggestions for things to see down the Coast of Antrim...sounds like there are lots of beautiful sites along the way!

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

As I say in my book, the Irish countryside at night can be as dark as the bottom of a coal mine. That is why I suggest packing a small flashlight to take with you. Craig Park can be difficult to find. However I have a map and good directions in my book. I think that if you make a point of finding it a time or two in the daylight (and really pay attention to directions while doing it) you will be okay at night. Who knows, maybe you will have a full moon. Also, daylight lasts late in July.

If you want to be in town try the Bushmills Inn. They will have some rooms that are quieter than others.

I don't think you need a kick to finish up your itinerary, just a gentle nudge. Sleep on it till after the holidays and then decide.

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Michele, thanks for the gentle nudge! Since my family has unanimously voted to stay right in Westport town centre despite any noise, I decided to let them have their wish. And to balance that I should choose a quiet place to stay up in Bushmills like Craig Park! Thanks for answering my questions. So, 2 or 3 sleepless nights in Westport, followed by 2 quiet nights at Craig Park, that sounds like balance to me!

So, pack flashlights...reading lights for staying up all night in Westport...earplugs...buy a white noise machine?! Pack the Ambien...Westport, here we come! Hey, if I'm going to be awake anyway, I might as well sing away all night in Matt Malloys! Well I can't actually sing all that well, but if everyone is having a Guiness they won't notice...Just teasing, I wouldn't sing unless it was a sing-a-long...I love listening to real musicians...

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

It sounds like a good compromise to me. I have a tiny white noise machine that clips to your belt and has small earbuds. It has worked great for me. Only thing is you don't hear the alarm clock. You might look into getting one. I don't like the function with chirping birds though. Then I think it is time to wake up! I prefer rhythmic and regular white noise like a waterfall or rain. Maybe a couple of pints at the pub will help too?

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Wow, Michele, your web-site is really hopping since I last visited it! Got busy with the holidays.

I booked the Olde Railway hotel for Westport and am now working on County Antrim and Belfast/Newtownards. I am pretty convinced that I would love Craig Park, especially after staying right in lively Westport. I have been booking accomodations based on our overall needs, but I dream of staying at b&bs run by an Irish couple or an Irish family. Jan & David at Craig Park sound great...I think I will e-mail them this weekend...but I think they probably aren't Irish? I hear they are well-travelled before they settled down...love chatting with people who have travelled all over the globe! I think it would be rude to ask them if they are Irish so I'm asking you instead.

Let's see, I have Heaton's in Dingle, and I think the owners are Irish, right? Then there's Drumcreehy in Ballyvaughan, and I think the Irish wife is married to a wonderful German hubby, right? Then I just booked the Olde Railway in Westport, a very nice lady named Helen has been e-mailing me, I don't know who owns/runs the hotel.

The reason I want a couple of Irish families/couples to stay with is because I miss my Irish grandmother and like the idea of meeting some Irish people. But I will meet them anyway I guess as they are all over Ireland, after all, shopping, chatting in the pubs, etc! There are just too many factors to consider in choosing a b&b/hotel, this can't be the only factor.

I think I will love the places we're staying and thanks for your advice and support and your great web-site.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

Remember that Northern Ireland is not the Republic. They are still part of Britain. Many people there consider themselves British, others Irish. As for David and Jan, I believe she was born in Africa and lived there as a child (remember the British Empire was everywhere!). I am not certain where David was born but he has a very upper crust British accent. However, they have lived in NI for quiet some time now. They have also lived all over the world.

Be patient awaiting a reply to your email. They may still be in Australia on vacation. BTW, David and Jan will be retiring within the next few years. Everyone that wants to stay at Craig Park should do so soon.

Jan and David are wonderful hosts no matter where they were born. They take a real interest in their guests and know the area well. David taught for quite a while at the university in Coleraine and is very well read. I'm sure that you will have no end of interesting discussions in the evening sipping wine in their parlor. Their caring and hospitality is tops.

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Michelle, I think I understand Northern Ireland a bit better after reading your reply above. It makes sense that some people in Northern Ireland would consider themselves Brittish, and others would consider themselves Irish. So, in Northern Ireland am I visiting Brittain or Ireland?! (Neither and both.)

Do we add this to the topics that one does not discuss in Northern Ireland?

Those interesting discussions in the parlor at Craig Park while sipping wine sound very invigorating. My whole family, including my young adult daughters, very much enjoyed lively discussions with a couple in Costa Rica who ran a b&b where you join them at dinner and the conversation was very humorous and stimulating. My daughters joined right in. (That's La Finca Que Ama in case anyone is interested.)

Since David (back to Craig Park in Bushmills in case I lost anyone) has taught at the University of Coleraine, and they have lived in Northern Ireland for quite a while as you say, they must indeed know the area and the people well. I think I will have to do some extra reading between now and July so that I can keep up with those discussions since David is well-read!

I am now even more mystified and intrigued to try and understand how you can have a country where people are identifying with 2 different countries! I think it will take more than our four nights in Northern Ireland to understand this, but perhaps we will get an inkling of understanding... Of course I knew theoretically that there is the Republic of Ireland and there is Northern Ireland, part of the UK, but I don't think Americans who haven't been to Ireland really understand what does that truly mean, I'm sure I can't pretend to know.

II chatted with a lady on fodors who lives in Northern Ireland and she says my Irish grandmother was an "Ulster woman". Another interesting bit of terminology. My grandmother came from Northern Ireland, but I would have to look back at history to see what was happening around 1914 when she emigrated... She and her sisters considered themselves Irish all their lives and part of the pride in that identity was passed onto the grand-children . (Also I am not sure which part of Ireland her parents were born in, I only know she was raised in Northern Ireland, near Belfast and Lurgan.)

Michelle, I am very curious about one thing...do you think the people of Northern Ireland are more or less musical than the people of the Republic of Ireland? Of course this is a generalization but I am wondering if we will perceive a general difference or not. Now here is my own perception, but I think we folks here in the USA are generally not as musical as people from other countries I have visited. Okay does anybody know what I'm talking about?

Michelle, thank you for putting up with my questions. If anybody has any thoughts I'd be happy to hear them. It helps me even to see my questions in print. They sound a bit bizarre actually!

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

To be accurate it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So you will be visiting Northern Ireland. Basically it was a political split-up of the island of Ireland that the British implemented in 1921. It was called Partition. This article may help you understand some of it: http://www.inac.org/irishhistory/1921.php This whole political thing has caused a lot of strife and trouble so it is a sensitive topic of conversation.

In your grandmother's time it was all one country. The woman you were chatting with was right, your grandmother was an Ulster woman. That is the name of the province covering Northern Ireland and Co. Donegal.

As far as the music question I think you will find more trad musical venues in the Republic. Maybe because they get more tourists and cater to them more.

Michele

Maggie L · Senior Member

Melissa, I'll take a stab at some of your questions. If I get it wrong, I'm sure Michelle or Bill can set us both straight.

(1) Even though people and the media frequently use the terms interchangably, technically Great Britain and the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) are not synonymous. Great Britain, politically, is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The terms Britain and British are used informally to refer to both Great Britain or the UK. Citizens of the UK are usually considered to be British or Britons. So a citizen of Scotland, for example, is a Scot and is British, but he is not English.

However, when it comes to Northern Ireland, whether a resident considers himself British or Irish (or both) most likely depends on the person's political views which, in turn, most likely depend on his religion.

So, in answer to one of your questions, it's a topic I would definitely avoid (along with religion, politics, and "the Troubles").

(2) In regard to the woman referring to your grandmother as "Ulster woman," she is just using the name for one of the four traditional provinces of Ireland. Ulster included the northern counties, Munster the south, Leinster the east, and Connaught the west.

(3) Finally, some understanding of Irish history makes it easier to understand Ireland politically, and there are tons of good books on Ireland's past. If you prefer historical fiction, I would suggest Leon Uris' book Trinity, if you haven't already read it. It is not necessarily a balanced picture, but it is a good story and provides some insight.

Sorry if I've gone on too long. Maybe some of this will be helpful.

Maggie

Maggie L · Senior Member

Hey, Michelle, we did it again! We night owls were reading and typing away at the same time. We have to stop meeting this way ..... (chortle chortle)

Michele Erdvig · Host

Maggie,

I do see you logged in late at night when I'm "night owling around" on the forum. Did you know if you go to the main page of the forum, near the bottom you can see who is logged in? If you place your cursor on top of the name it will tell you what they are doing i.e. reading Trip Reports, posting, etc. Kind of a fun function of this new forum. Have you noticed Melissa posts very late also? She lives in California.

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Understanding Northern Ireland

Michele Erdvig · Host

RE: County Antrim...need advice, please

Maggie L · Senior Member

Didn't know that you could tell what someone was doing when you point to their name ---cool! Your new site has worked well, I think And yep, I knew Melissa was on the west coast and that's why her posts were usually late at night back here in EST time.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Maggie,

The "spy" thing only works on this page: http://ireland.activeboard.com/ near the bottom where it shows who is online.

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Help, fellow spies!

I have an endless ability to turn over and over the same trip facts, and never tire of coming up with new possibilities. The advantage: I plan great trips and never tire of the little details. The flaw: I can't stop!

Please tell me to stop trying to re-consider whether I can fit Dublin back into my itinerary... I think my trip is fine and well-balanced and I need to finish booking those last few b&bs...yeah, I'll do it right now. But that little planning

devlil in my brain says, wait, wait, then you'll be committed and you won't be able to change it and add Dublin back in...(Yeah, I think I should be committed!!!

)

Really I know I can't see Dublin without giving up someplace else, or giving up my nice relaxed pace.

My older daughter even asked me if we are going to have at least 3 or 4 nights in each place and not drive around too much! (She remembers how fabulous Rome was, where we spent 4 glorious nights.) Her question helps me to resist the temptation of taking any nights away from my 3-3-3 plan for nights in Dingle, County Clare, and County Mayo.

I am such a silly.

Haven't I learned yet that when a trip is over, nobody ever says, gee whiz, I sure wish I had run around more and had less time to barely see more places!!! Instead, people will always say, I wish I had more time here, and I could have used an extra night there...

So really I can't add Dublin without entirely skipping the Giant's Causeway, Dunluce castle, and the Antrim coast.

Okay I hope when I next post on this board I can celebrate how I have actually e-mailed those last few b&bs...or at least 1 more!

Melissa5 · Guru

Oops, too late. Brain has already begun re-considering options!

There are only 2 plans for last third of our trip that I like. Which one do you think is better?

Plan A:
Drive Westport to Bushmills.
2 nights: Bushmills (see Giant's Causeway, Dunluce castle)
Drive down to Belfast along Antrim Coast.
2 nights: Belfast
1 night: Malahide, near Dublin airport.

Plan B:
Drive Westport to Belfast
3 nights: Belfast
(visit Botanic gardens; areas where grandmother lived; AND DAY-TRIP up the Antrim coast as far as Glenariff, then return to sleep in Belfast.)
2 nights: Malahide (with day-trip into Dublin or Trim castle...)

What I like about Plan A is that it includes both the Antrim coast and the Giant's causeway area, which I hear is also beautiful all along the north coast. It also includes Dunluce castle. However it doesn't allow any time for seeing Malahide or Dublin, because we would have to do Ulster folk and transport museum in Cultra on the same day as we drive from Belfast to Malahide. Therefore Malahide becomes merely an airport stopover. Also, Plan A has 2 nights in one b&b; 2 nights in another b&b; then 1 night in a b&b. This 2-2-1 plan, with no 3-nights stops, is a little fast for us. Even my young adult daughters prefer some 3-night stops.

What I like about Plan B is it gives us 3 nights in one b&b, followed by 2 nights in one b&b. This is a better split for us. We tend to enjoy most the places we spend more time in. We have a variety of interests among family members therefore longer stays tend to satisfy more desires. But if I had to select anyplace in Ireland for a 3-night stay, I'm not sure Belfast is the best choice, it just happens to be a good location for what we want to see. I may have found a quiet b&b in Belfast though, called Ash-Rowan Guesthouse on Windsor Avenue.

Michelle, do you have a favorite area if you had to choose between the Antrim coast between Belfast and Glenariff; or the north side, with Giant's causeway and the scenery north of Glenariff? Do you think they are equally beautiful or is one your favorite over the other?

I also considered and rejected plan c, where we would gain time in Malahide/Dublin by only spending 1 night in Bushmills. However since it's over a 4-hour drive from Westport to bushmills, I think we would then regret the drive entirely!

Anybody who is kind enough to listen to all my plans and re-plans, thank you from the bottom of my over-planning heart!

It doesn't help that from the start, I have wanted to include at least 1 day in Dublin, but hubby isn't interested in Dublin, however he would tolerate it for my sake.

Wanting to finish booking all my Ireland b&bs before hubby and I leave for our week, just for the 2 of us, in the Caribbean in February!

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

Stop second-guessing yourself and go with Plan A. Chances are that on a repeat visit to Ireland Dublin will be either your arrival or departure city. So you could easily do a few days there at that time. On this trip you are definitely going to Northern Ireland. On subsequent trips it might be out of your way to do so. Consequently on another trip Dublin will be much easier to do than NI.

You have three days in most places. A couple of two-night stays makes sense in NI because everything is much closer there (smaller country & better roads than the Republic). Doing the two-night stays there make for better pacing of your trip. Unless you can somehow add a few days? Work with what you have.

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Michelle, that's funny, you chose Plan A and so did I. Plus, I told myself I would just sneak on the computer for a few minutes, and I would find a "sign" that would point me towards either including Bushmills & Antrim Coast or excluding it. I just knew there would be a final definitive sign waiting for me to find (actually I was determined to find one.) And here you are!

And not only that, but it's just the "sign" I was hoping for so I don't have to argue.

Besides, Northern Ireland sounds less crowded than Dublin, and that sounds good. And you're right, I will have the same dilemma on the next trip if I don't see enough of Northern Ireland.

So, Northern Ireland, Southwest Ireland, and West Ireland, here we come!

Gosh Michelle, it must be almost time to start planning my trip for June/July 2007 already!

Many thanks for your friendly wisdom and just the right gentle push when I need one.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

I have done so many itineraries over the decades that it is second nature to me. Of course it has to fit my clients (not me). I am just there to guide them to the best of what they want to see. I provide the experience and first-hand info, they provide the input. The same on the forum, which is why you often see me asking many questions before answering. However, you provided all the info (and then some!) right upfront. You made it easy for me. Now if your family has any complaints about the 2-night stays you can always blame me!

On to the reservations...and 2007 trip to Ireland!!

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Michelle, you temptress, I could easily be enticed to start planning my 2007 trip to Ireland even though I'm finishing up my 2006 trip to Ireland...(not to mention the whole world beckons...) Now if I go to Ireland again in 2007, I realize hey, I already know where I want to go:

Dublin
Rock of Cashel
Kenmare
Fun areas south of Dublin, let's see:
Glendalough
Kilkenny
Cahir Castle
Cobh
Baltimore and Skibbereen area

Looks like Ireland 2007, second trip to Ireland, would be all south of Dublin! Now Michelle, look what you started...

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

I'm a real instigator! Since all the places you want to see in 2007 are south it makes perfect sense that you are spending more time in NI this time. See how things always work out?

Michele

wojazz3 · Guru

Ah yes, but none of her plans include an extensive stay in Donegal, so that will have to be 2008 ... and what? No boat trip? Have to fix that!

I'm not sure what we mean by the poeple being more musical. I agree that tourism brings more traditional music to the tourist areas. If you hit some areas that have less of a tourism influence, "traditional Irish music" may be filled with some surprises. Don't be confused if if you hear, Willie Nelson, John Denver and that famous Irish composer, Neil Diamond. I don't think I would say that the Republic is more musical than NI. By the way, one of the best Irish sessions I've heard in Ireland was in Ballycastle NI. If you are there on a Friday night, visit the House of McDonnell. Fabulous session.

Now, on the USA not being "as musical", there are lots of things to consider. I think the US is equally musical, but in totally different ways. One of the issues is the diversity of the country. We are, of course, a nation of imigrants bringing a vast array of musical tastes and styles. Another is the total lack of a national musical tradition. Jazz, perhaps the only musical "invention" that the US can truly claim, accounts for less than 3% of musical sales in the US, trailing even classical music. Those numbers sadly include the "G" factor (Kenny G) who quite frankly doesn't really fit into the genre. He is lite jazz at best, closer to New Age. I've heard, by the way, that he has some pretty serious jazz chops, but decided he wanted to make A LOT of money so he went with what sold. Can't say that I blame him. An interesting note, despite claims to the contrary by country music fans, that style has remained somewhat flat over the last 20 years, though there was a noticeable spike in the mid 90s bringing it up about 6 points to 16%. Recent figures have it back down to about 10.5. Rock still stands #1, though has lost considerable ground in the last 20 years from 45-25%. Rap/Hiphop has taken up about half of that.

So, is it likely that you'll walk into an US bar and hear someone break into song? NO! But what would they sing? A show tune, rap tune, rock and role, Country, R&B ..... or maybe an Irish tune. We have no national tradition there and quite frankly, most recent music has such a reliance on timbre that it's hard for you and I to just start singing a Britney Spears tune (even if we wanted to). One of the greatest examples I've heard of this was when a professor for whom I was working in grad school made the point in a class of his by attempting to sing a Janis Joplin tune while he played the chords on piano. He was an old guy, with eye brows wider than his head, polysester pants, a multicolored striped shirt, suspenders and a bow tie. It was hysterical!

On the other hand, music education in the US is a huge business. Virtually every major university in the country has a good sized and pretty good quality music school, most states having at least two and some states having 4-10. We've got comfortably over 100 universities in this country training people for careers in music (with very few available jobs) in fields from performance, history, pedagogy to theory and composition. Private instruction is an enormous business (I should know) and we are teaching ages 8-80 how to play and sing. Music programs at the universities in Ireland seem to be a bit of an after thought. Trinity and UCD have a music department, but only UCD seems to actually have an orchestra. That orchestra was just established in 2002. Cork and Galway don't have a full time music department at all. There may be music related classes.

Little Boulder County Colorado has as many as 6 community or semi-professioanal orchestras, at least as many choirs, a number of concert bands, countless starving jazz musicians and I think 50% of the people have an old guitar in their basement that they claim they were once very good at. These groups don't include the university which has a full orchestra, a chamber orchestra, 3 opera performances a year, 3 concert bands, 2 big (jazz) bands and whole bunch of jazz combos and that's just the instrumental side. You'll find the same all over the country.

I think the US is a very musical country, but VERY diverse in it's tastes and approaches to music. This is, by the way, a fascinating topic and there are probably dissertations on it gathering dust in all of our major colleges. We regularly refer to the Irish as a musical people. What that actually means probably varies vastly from person to person as do musical tastes.

My dissertation is now complete. I will defend it as soon as I've actually done the research.

Bill

Melissa5 · Guru

Yes, Michelle, it does look like my itinerary for our first trip has worked out nicely so that my someday-second-trip can be all south of Dublin (and including Dublin.) And as wojazz mentions the third trip will surely be County Donegal and maybe Yeats country?

Hubby claims that he will definitely not be going to Ireland for a second trip. (However I don't believe his claims. He used to claim he was never going to Ireland ever... Besides he often says he won't go back someplace because there are so many new places to discover. I think he's like Daniel Boone re-incarnated or something.) Besides I am quite confident that I will go without him if he won't come. I will find somebody who wants to come with me. Maybe my daughters, a friend...or, any volunteers out there?! Dude has already volunteered to play the Grandma rocking in front of the peat fire telling stories!

In case anyone is confused, our first trip to Ireland is July 2006, so we haven't actually been there yet even though I am planning our second and third trip and our first as well. Also I do think I ought to attend a writer's conference I heard about...now where did I see that info...an annual writer's and story-tellers conference in Ireland. Anyway hubby has an airline ticket with his name on it to Ireland, and years ago he claimed he would never go to Ireland (not a biologist's choice.) But I think he is going to have a great time too. Ireland will take him by surprise.

Besides I think Ireland will leave me feeling very amorous...

Dunluce castle in the mist...clinging for dear life to hubby on top of the Cliffs of Moher...some toe-tapping, a Guiness, and maybe an Irish love-song sung in the pub...a peat fire on a rainy day...What could be more romantic to a girl with some Irish blood? And sheep droppings and cow plops in the field, to ground us and remind us of any of our rural roots...

Mud and mist and rainy days...whatever will hubby and I find to do in our room when the weather is bad? He might enjoy Ireland more than he imagines...

Melissa5 · Guru

wojazz3, yes, I agree, Donegal for Ireland 2008...and maybe Yeats country as well.

Maybe you're not allowed to sing in the good old USA unless you've had extensive training. Where are all our singing waitors and cooks? Where can I go if I want to sing with people? To church, but then I can only sing church hymns. I could join a choral group but those would be music people, trained people. What if I just want to get together with ordinary people and sing spontaneously? If I got in my car and set out to drive to a singing place, I can't think where I would even look. Certainly none in my neighborhood! Gee whiz, I would have to go to a kareoke place, and then I think you have to pay to sing.

Ah-ha, there was girl scouts, sing around the camp-fire, but that was a long time ago...

The closest thing in my neighborhood to a place where you can go any time and you are allowed to chat with other people there, without being considered a weirdo, would be our local neighborhood Starbucks. But nobody sings there. You have to sit outside if you want to chat because the inside is always taken over by college students who have mistaken Starbucks for the library. What do you think will happen if I show up at Starbucks tomorrow and start singing?

Let me see...I'm pretty sure I hear 2 and 3 year olds singing any time they want. But we soon cure them of that. After that, you mostly either have to pay to sing, pray to sing, or go far away from the city and huddle around the campfire in the wilderness, where you are finally allowed to sing.

You are also allowed to sing if you take an instrument to the park with you, and set down your hat for donations. In that case, you are allowed to sing because somebody is paying you.

I want a local pub here in my neighborhood where we can go and meet and sing if we wanna!

Melissa5 · Guru

Michelle, I am so glad we're going to stay with Jan and David at Craig Park in Bushmills. Jan is so nice, her hospitality comes through even by e-mail. I feel so welcome already!

We will visit the Giant's Causeway and Dunluce Castle while staying 2 nights at Bushmills. Then we'll take the lovely coast of Antrim down to Belfast area. I am still debating whether to stay in Belfast (don't have a place in Belfast yet; there is no answer from Ash-Rowan); or Edenvale in Newtownards (sounds wonderful) in Michelle's book; or now another choice, if we want to stay closer to Lurgan (where my grandmother was born) we can stay in Clanmurry in Dromore, recommended by Jan at Craig Park. Clanmurry doesn't have ensuite bathrooms but the owners sound very interesting, "John's ancestors founded a shipping line that carried Irish immigrants from Derry to America". (This brief phrase is from Alastair Sawday's Special Places to Stay in Ireland, which is quite interesting, but I must say I was disappointed to note that the places listed in the book must pay to be listed. Nobody pays to be in Michelle's book! If you can only include places which are willing to pay to be in your book, it seems to me that takes away from your objectivity. I like Michelle's approach!)

Michelle, so glad you told me about Craig Park. I enjoyed reading about them in your book. You recommend such delightful places run by wonderful people.

Well, hmmm...some research has turned up...absolutely no information about Dromore. Apparently no guidebooks consider Dromore interesting enough to tell readers anything about it. This makes Dromore definitely non-touristy. (But that doesn't automatically mean I should stay there!.

Well I suppose Dromore isn't in County Antrim, it's really in County Down, but we're going to County Down when we leave County Antrim...

-- Edited by Melissa5 at 20:33, 2006-01-17

Michele Erdvig · Host

Melissa,

I got such a great big out loud laugh at how you are going to "convince" your husband to love Ireland. We women do have our wiles! I think it will work!!

I'm glad to hear you have your reservations for Craig Park. You will love Jan and David. Now you have to decide on whether you will stay in Belfast, N'Ards or Lurgan. I have a place bookmarked to look at myself near Lurgan that looks fantastic online. Let me know if you want the link (but note that I have not been there yet).

Michele

Melissa5 · Guru

Michelle, yes, we women are clever! You don't know how many times I am so happy and I tell hubby "I love this place", and he says, "Me too." Then I ask why does he love it. He says, "Well, because you love it!" I think he doesn't actually realize why he loves it!!!

Oh yes, you know I can't resist hearing about a new place near Lurgan which sounds great which you haven't investigated yet. Maybe I will pre-investigate your investigation. Besides, the more choices for a rabid obsessive-compulsive trip planner, the better! Gosh Michelle, this is really my last decision for Ireland accomodations, because I have already decided on your recommendation for Malahide, although I haven't actually e-mailed them yet.

But you won't get rid of me that easily. I will be popping in here trying to make lists of restaurants, pubs, pleasant walks, best museums, best castles. Plus somebody has to harass those new folks who are just starting to plan their trips and lead them astray.

Totally kidding! I will be very nice to them, in honor of the many kind folks who have helped me every step of the way in planning our first trip to Ireland.

Thanks very much everybody, from the bottom of my nearly Irish heart.