How much driving is too much?

Ro · Member

How much driving is too much?

oopsy · Senior Member

Hi Ro,

It would be easier for Michele and others to give you input if you post your itinerary in the body of your message rather than as an attachment. Some folks checking boards at work might not be able to open attachments, and others might be hesitant to open them.

oopsy

Ro · Member

Thanks for the hint, Oopsy. When I saw the document link I just assumed that I was supposed to use it. The proposed itinerary:

Day Overnight Via/Touring
0 Leave USA
1 Dromore Newgrange, (Trim Castle)
2 Ballycastle Antrim Glens, Glenariff Forest Park, (Morlough Bay NR)
3 Donegal Carrick-a-Rede Rope Bridge, Giants Causeway, Londonderry
4 Donegal Cliffs of Bunglass, Glencolumbkille
5 Westport Cliffs of Magno, (Carrowmore, Lough Gill)
6 Galway Connemara [Sky Road, Lough Corrib], (Balintubber Abbey)
7 Bunratty The Burren, Cliffs of Moher, (Corcomroe Abbey)
8 Killarney Adare, (Dingle Peninsula)
9 Killarney Ring of Kerry, (Gap of Dunloe)
10 Kinsale Killarney NP, Moll's Gap
11 Kilkenny Blarney, Cahel, Kilkinney Castle, Swiss Cottage, Tintern Abbey
12 Kilkenny Cashel
13 Dublin Glendalough, Powerscourt
14 Dublin Dublin
15 Dublin Dublin
16 Leave Dublin

I'm now wondering about staying in Tralee, especially if we decide to visit Dingle. Names in parenthesis are those we aren't sure of due to time and/or interest.

Ro

Michele Erdvig · Host

Ro,

Thanks for posting your itinerary in the body of your message. Oopsy is right that it makes things easier. I think that you have fallen vicitm to trying to cram too much into each day. Most days you have twice as much (or three times as much) as most people would be comfortable doing. I don't know what your travel style is. Perhaps you like to be on the go from dawn to dusk, checking off sights you have seen. However, if you prefer a vactation where you don't need a week of recovery when you return home, you should consider re-doing your itinerary.

Don't worry about re-doing your itinerary several times. There are few people who get it right the first time. Think of a few more 2-night stays in strategic areas. In between sprinkle in the one-nighters. Remember that sightseeing takes time so schedule for it and not just the driving. In September the days start getting shorter and you don't want to be driving around Ireland at night (take my word on that one).

My philosophy for travel in Ireland is "less is more". You can't possibly see it all so pick and choose your "must sees" carefully. Let me know if I can help further.

Michele

Ro · Member

Thank you Michele. We are having a hard time correlating miles with hours, especially for the scenic routes. In general, I've assumed 50 mph on main roads and 30 mph on secondary roads as a rough estimate. Is that too optimistic? I've redone the itinerary, removing several of the sights and changing one of the overnight stops (Kinsale to Caher) to reduce the driving. There are still only 3 places where we stop for 2 nights because moving on cuts down on miles. Here is our revised itinerary with estimated miles which may be wrong because the map numbers are pretty hard to see (all comments welcome):

29-Aug Leave USA

30-Aug Arrive Dublin Airport ~8:30 AM, Drive to Dromore B&B via main roads (90 mi) / side trip to Newgrange (20 mi rt)

31-Aug Drive through Belfast (no stop) to Whitehead and along NE coast to Glens of Antrim / loop through Glenariff Forest Park / continue on to B&B in Ballycastle area (125 mi)

1-Sep Drive along N coast with stops at Carrick-a-Rede Rope Bridge, Giants Causeway, Londonderry (65 mi) / continue on to Donegal area for 2 night B&B stop (70 mi)

2-Sep Scenic drive to Cliffs of Bunglass, Glencolumbkille (90 mi rt)

3-Sep Drive from Donegal to Westport area B&B (100 mi) / side trips if time permits to Cliffs of Magno (30 mi rt) and/or, Carrowmore (+ 10 mi)

4-Sep Drive from Westport to Galway area B&B via Connemara (90 mi +alt roads/side trips, +16 mi if via Cong)

5-Sep Drive from Galway area to Bunratty area B&B via the Burren, Cliffs of Moher (130 mi) / visit Bunratty Folk Park in PM if time permits

6-Sep Drive from Bunratty via Adare to Tralee area for 2 night B&B stop (75 mi) / possible partial Dingle drive in PM (60-80 mi rt)

7-Sep Ring of Kerry, Killarney (130 mi)

8-Sep Tralee to Caher area B&B (90 mi), visit Caher Castle, Swiss Cottage

9-Sep Caher to Cashel to Kilkenney area for 2 night B&B stop (75 mi)

10-Sep Kilkenny Castle, Jerpoint Abbey (25 mi rt)

11-Sep Drive from Kilkenny to Dublin via Glendalough, possibly Powerscourt (130 mi) / check in to hotel in PM then drop off car

12-Sep Dublin City touring

13-Sep Dublin City touring

14-Sep Leave Dublin in AM

CCJPO · Member

Ro:

IMHO you may be trying to see too much in to short of a period of time We have spent 120 days over the past 4 years driving around Ireland, and that does not count two rather long stays in Galway as part of an exchange program with the University and the Irish court system and my counterparts in the States.

Our 1st trip was the same length as yours, 17 days - 2 days travel time, plus 15 days in country.

On that trip we pretty much confined ourselves to the southwestern counties of Cork, Kerry and Limerick, we didn't get much further north then the Cliffs of Moher, nor east of Tipperary, which we had to do because after all "it is a long was to Tipperary. we also knew that we were going to be coming or going back to Ireland in the future so we planned our trips so that we would be seeing the country 1/4 at a time and doing Northern Ireland as a separate trip.

We spend two or three nights at each stop and do day trips. For us it works out well, but I don't know how you travel. And I don't know if you plan subsequent trips to Ireland.

All that being said, I see that you are starting in Dublin and ending in Dublin, if there is any chance that you can change your flights to to arrive in Shannon and to depart from in Dublin, or vice-versa, I would recommend it. That way will be able to more comfortably able to see much more of what you want to see with out experiencing what some folks have called the "green blur"

If you are renting a car, get the smallest car that will comfortably meet the needs of you and your travelling companions, and if you are comfortable driving a manual transmission, then rent a stick shift, as it will be up to 2/3rds less expensive then an automatic. And it is also easier to start out driving a stick in Shannon then it is in Dublin, but in actuality driving leaving the airport in Dublin driving a stick isn't all that hard either. Especially if you are not planning on driving in Dublin proper, although that isn't as painful as it sounds. Although there are a lot of one way streets in Dublin and it can get confusing. No matter how you do it have good maps and someone designated as the navigator. As well as good maps, take a compass, and/or, as some are doing, get or take a GPS system with you.

I would recommend 4 books for you and your party to read and devour prior to your trip. First and formost Michele's book, Pat Preston's book(as well as her website and forum), Fodor's Exploring Ireland Book, and Frommer's Ireland's Best-Loved Driving Tours. Or better yet for a relatively small investment Michele has a service she provides for a small, reasonable fee that will assist you in making your plans. This is not a paid endorsement. But it might help you narrow down you itinerary to a workable fun trip.

Finally, unless I think of more later, I hope you get lost, and if you do get lost. I hope you get lost in an area where some one is herding cattle or sheep down a lonely road. If you do ask if there is anything you can do to help. If you get lucky the answer will be yes, and if you get real lucky andthe answer is yes, you might get invited home, or invited to a locals pub for a pint or three. Also you might get lucky and find a person working their sheep dogs, if that happens spend time watching. Quietly makeyour presence known, and maybe you might be invited for acloserobservation, andthen home or to a local pub for a pint or three. It does and has happened.

Oops there is another finally for now. You need to decide if you want to tour Dublin at the beginning or end of your trip. The reason for that is that Dublin is a vibrant, busy city with all the glamour and pitfalls of any large metropolitan area. Our preference is to do Dublin inthe begining of our trips and get the excitement and crowd fix early. Then at the end of thetrip we have slowed our pace way down so that we are relaxed and rested before the long trek back to reality. Howver it is whatevertrips your trigger.

Enjoy your trip, enjoy the planning, and if you have any questions I will try to answern to the best of my ability.

P.S.

Your time and mph guesstimates are a bit on the high side, you will more likely average about 25 to 30 mph, and if you are lucky on the back, back roads which are the best ones to travel you can go 10 mph.

P.S.S.,

As an aside, see I can play nicely with others.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Ro,

CCJPO makes some very valid points.

Will this be your one and only trip to Ireland?

Do you want to see as much as you can and cover as much ground as possible?

Can you arrive in one city and depart from another to cut-out backtracking?

On many trips to Ireland my husband and I have determined that when we average out the mph for the whole trip (75 mph on some roads and 20 on others) that the final average is 35 mph. As CCJPO has said the sheep or cattle can slow you down to zero on some roads but that is the charm of Ireland. The unexpected is always just around the corner.

Have you thought of covering less territory? Only you know what you want your trip to be like and the pace you want to set. I always recommend making a list of your "must sees" in order of importance. Then ruthlessly cut out the ones at the bottom till the itinerary fits your pace and needs.

Michele

P.S. Where is Dromore B&B on your first day?

Ro · Member

Thank you CCJPO and Michele for your thoughtful answers.

To respond to some of your questions/suggestions (in no particular order):

We can't change to Shannon Airport. Unfortunately we had to confirm our nonrefundable flights yesterday (they were done with frequent flyer miles).

This will almost certainly be our only trip to Ireland. We're in our mid 60s, and there's still a lot of the world that we hope to see.

Dromore is a little SW of Belfast. It will mean about 100 miles of driving on our first day, but all on high speed roads (other than a side trip to Newgrange). It will give us a chance to get used to driving on the 'wrong' side of the road again. It's been more than 10 years since the last time. We'll have to stick to automatic transmission for the safety of the Irish population and/or other tourists. I haven't driven a stick shift since the late 60s.

Our 'must sees', again in no particular order, are Antrim Glens, The Giant's Causeway, Connemara, The Burren, Cliffs of Moher, Ring of Kerry, Cashel, Glendalough and Dublin.

We tend to leave cities for the end of our trips because it's really the countryside that we prefer. We aren't terribly interested in stately homes, although we do enjoy the gardens. I imagine that we will get lost from time to time, and I agree that it can result in some interesting experiences. I wonder if rental cars in Ireland have a GPS option. I've discovered the Ireland AA trip planner and have been using that to get driving distances and times. I'm trying to keep down to no more than 120 miles or 4 hours driving time in a day, but of course they don't allow for sheep in the road.

Again, thank you both.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Ro,

I thought it was that Dromore but since there are a couple in Ireland, I thought I should make sure. Had you thought of reversing the direction of your trip? I hate to see you go quite that far on your first day in Ireland. If you headed south you could overnight in Glendalough, much closer to Dublin.

Newgrange takes time. Even though you might arrive at opening time it can take a while before you may be able to take the tour. Very small groups are scheduled to go into Newgrange at any one time. You could easily spend your whole morning there. The high speed roads basically stop at the border so you will be on slower ones once you reach No. Ireland, when driving up the east coast.

Had you thought of skipping Donegal in favor of adding your other stops? Had you thought of replacing the Ring of Kerry with Dingle? If I had to choose I'm afraid Dingle would win.

You are wise to be renting an automatic. It does add greatly to the cost but will also add greatly to ease of driving.

I can see you have your hearts set on seeing both Northern Ireland and the southwest and Dublin. To do all that you will need a speedier trip that covers more territory. It can be done as long as you realize the realities of it. I suggest you use the AA route planner and then divide the mileage by 35 to get your drive times. Remember that sightseeing takes time too, so schedule for that. Back to the drawing board!

Michele

Michele Erdvig · Host

Ro,

One more thing to consider: Ryder Cup is in Ireland from Sept 22-24. The week of that the east coast will basically be booked up. You need to work around it.

Michele

Ro · Member

Thank you, Michele.

We're changing our first overnight stop to the Dundalk area, assuming that we can find a B&B. We were always a little uneasy about that first day drive, and what you said about Newgrange convinced us.

It's good to know your opinion about Dingle. We'll see Dingle first, and if we have any extra time on our hands we can drive to Lady's View and Moll's Gap rather than doing the complete ring drive. As far as Donegal is concerned, we thought that it was a good place for a 2 night stop, but the second day can easily be skipped, if necessary.

We've started that process of miles vs hours using 35 as the divisor and adding in touring/lunch time. I can already see that we shouldn't plan a stop in Londonderry.

Once again I want to thank you for your help. It's so much better to know what to expect.

Ro

P.S. We'll be leaving Ireland on the 14th of September, so shouldn't (I hope) be too much impacted by the Ryder Cup.

Michele Erdvig · Host

Ro,

I'm always happy to add my "two cents worth". I hope that it helps a bit. Dundalk is not the most attractive town. You might also try Carlingford nearby.

Since you already know that your last two nights will definitely be in Dublin, consider making your reservations soon for that.

Michele