Loop Head/Dingle/Kenmare/Cashel

mfreed · Member

Loop Head/Dingle/Kenmare/Cashel

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

Welcome to my forum! Glad to see you here planning your trip.

With only 6 nights I think you need to refine your itinerary. You are really pushing yourself hard on day one. You have too much sightseeing and driving planned,fresh off the plane. Perhaps you should skip the banquet in favor of the Cliffs of Moher and stay in that area. The Cliffs of Moher and Loop Head are both cliffs and scenic drives. You won't have time for both.

The Gap of Dunloe is an all day tour that starts in the morning and goes till afternoon. No time for that. I would add time to the SW if possible. Use your extra days there. You will probably find Cashel too much to include in your itinerary.

Give it another go and let us know what you come up with. Don't get discouraged. It takes many tries to get an itinerary right.

Michele

mfreed · Member

Thanks Michele, not discouraged, just generating more questions.....

The first night is already booked in Shannon so regardless of what the day holds, the overnight will be in Shannon, that was my logic for picking one of the castle dinner shows for that night, whether it was Bunratty or Knappogue, it sounded like an entertaining close to the day.

When arriving early and picking up the car by 8/9 I didn't see an option other than starting the trip off with a full day of sight seeing before crashing hard later.

You say the Gap of Dunloe tour is morning until afternoon, did you mean as part of a tour group or driving independently? Looking at the route it doesn't look like roads in the US but I didn't think it was a 4-5 hour drive. I guess it's going to be a real eye opener once we get there!!

I think a question about your "trips" may be in order..... When you visit the island, are you more into soaking up the local culture, talking to people you've met and grown to know over time and just relax and enjoy? Or try and sight see with some type of flow from point A to B to C to D to wherever with continuous activity going from the morning starting point to the evening landing point? I think that would help me ask more realistic questions, we have been more on the go travelers when we've been on vacation so I think that is my mindset.

yesiree · Guru

I'd opt for the Cliffs over Loop Head on Day One...that way if jet lag hits, you can get home reasonably easily. If you keep jetlag at bay, you can add the coastal drive north through the edge of the Burren, head to Doolin, enjoy Ennis or one of the other Clare towns, or catch the interior parts of the Burren. Loop Head, on the otherhand, needs a bit more of a commitment for it to be worthwhile.

The roads on the Gap of Dunloe are the very old-fashioned kind...and two carriages or cars cannot pass each other in most places. If you dare drive it, expect to be doing a lot of backing up and hugging the edge of the road. It's better to take a jaunting car ride...as being in a car is very challenging, especially when the jaunting cars and bikers are on the road during the day. My Dunloe adventure (which I drove before sunset in October) is posted here http://irishfireside.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/gap-of-dunloe-adventure/ ... photos are at http://flickr.com/photos/irishfireside/sets/72157603908022450/.

Dingle to Kenmare via Killarney is extraordinarily scenic route. With your limited schedule, I think you'll be so impressed with that trip that you won't even miss Dunloe...plus, it'll get you in Kenmare in time to enjoy the town.

I think it's important for you to determine just how on-the-go you want to be for this trip. With your string of one-night stays, I'd say your schedule will keep you moving at a fair clip.

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

Take Corey's advice. He knows what he is talking about. I would only drive the Gap of Dunloe in off-season. If I did it I would do it the opposite way from Kate Kearney's cottage because it really ticks off the jarveys there. Doing it later in the afternoon or evening is best. It is the tour that takes all day, either walking, biking or horses through the gap and boats back on tha lakes.

As to how I travel. In the past 35 years I have traveled almost every way there is to in Ireland. I say "almost" because I don't stay at hostels, camp out, nor have I ever taken a horse-drawn caravan around. I have done the "green blur tour" of Ireland more than I would care to admit. I have done relaxed trips, self-catering trips, fast trips, moderately paced trips and slow trips. Since I have done it all (almost) I can generally advise people as to what will work for them. What I need to know from you is do you want a fast, moderat or slow paced trip?

Michele

mfreed · Member

Thanks loads to both of you!!

Corey, this is very helpful and makes perfect sense to me (before breaking out the maps and online stuff to check, plan and obsess) I'll look at both days drives to see how that looks. I had actually only seen the Dunloe pics and thought it looked awesome, I also saw that hiking was a major part but didn't realize how major it was. Does the route you suggest still take you through some elevation? You've both convinced me that Dunloe's probably a bad idea, thanks.

Michele, I thought you'd probably done all the tour types but had to check. I think we are at the least moderate paced, probably closer to fast with the caveat that nothng is etched in stone, just a plan, and if something comes up to stop, delay or change our plans that's ok we're on vacation but we are definitely not slow, sit around people.... until night time when we hit base and find the local pub!!! Day time is for driving, looking, ohh'ing and awe'ing and night time is the time to meet locals, soak up atmosphere, Guiness and music!!

With that said and enough tips for several days, would you suggest any particular route towards Dublin? The Dunbrody ship sounds interesting but looks much too far without several other sites and towns to stop and over night. Have passes for Waterford crystal but not sure of interest there. A drive through the Wicklow mountains also looked cool but we're not huge horse people so the ranches in that region don't hold a ton of interest. I still plan to hit Cahir and Cashel on the way but I would think that would fall the day after leaving Kenmare. Our only, set last stop is Enniskerry where the lodging is already booked for the last night before leaving early afternoon from Dublin which is why our only Dublin stop is the airport. We have 2 hotel nights and 4 B&B nights just as an FYI.

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

Why not give your itinerary another go? Break out the maps and your calendar. Get out your list of "must sees" and see what you can come up with. We will be happy to comment on it.

Michele

yesiree · Guru

You'll get plenty of elevation on the route from Dingle to Kenmare via Kilarney...Ladies View is on the route and has provided a quintessential Irish postcard scene since Queen Victoria was in Ireland...and that's only one of the great views along the way.

mfreed · Member

Thanks Corey, you'd already convinced me this was a better plan!!

Between this site, Micheles book, Frommers, Trip advisor, the package literature and Goggle Earth I think our plans are really coming together! Once I have a more concrete point A to Point B itenerary I'll post and get more constructive help. The more I look the more I see the point of staying longer in one or two places to soak up the country. Kilarney, for example, really seems to have a full days activities if you so desire.

An easy question for now..... on the drive from Shannon to Dingle, is it worthwhile to drive the inland coast, N69 to Tarbert then down, instead of straight through the center on N21?

Sidz · Guru

The route using the Tarbert Ferry is beautiful and well worth the selection. And the time spent travelling across the Shannon River gives you some time to get out of your car, go to the observation area, and relax for awhile.

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

Many prefer to take the ferry. However, it probably takes the same amount of time with either route (unless you get tied up in Limerick rush-hour). Taking the ferry is more rural. The N20 & N21 will take you through Adare where many like to stop for photos. Either route will get you there.

Michele

mfreed · Member

OK, tentative itenarary...

Day 1 (April 24) - Arrive Shannon early, pick up car, eat, drive to Cliffs of Moher, drive the coast a little, cut through the Burren, head back to check into hotel. Go to a castle banquet if we feel up to it, crash and sleep if we don't.

Day 2 - Drive to Dingle either via Tarbert (no ferry) or N21 through Adare, several sights bookmarked along either way. Shoot for arrival early enough to do the Slea head drive.

Day 3 - Dingle to Kenmare via both Kerry and Killarney. Plan to spend afternoon in Killarney for various sights, the overall drive to enjoy the scenery stopping for Torc Falls, etc.....

Day 4 - Kenmare to Cashel. Plan to stop for a walking tour around the Stone Cottage, tour Caher, then on to Cashel. Tour the ROK if time allows or tour first thing in the morning if needed.

Day 5 - Cashel to Kilkenny. No real plans for the drive, get to Kilkenny city and spend the day in and around.

Day 6 - Kilkenny to Enniskerry. Plan is for several gardens between the two, Carlow (??), Wicklow for Powerscourt, and end in Enniskerry. This is a booked hotel night as the reason to stop here.

Day 7 - Enniskerry to Dublin airport, 2:PM flight out so no plans for anything Dublin, just pack, drive, turn in car and head out.

I know this is a lot of driving but it didn't look like more than 100 miles or so on any day, using the AAroute site, and less on most. We have some sights we'd like to see but have tried to stay as flexible as possible, always choosing a stopping point of interest for the night and keeping us heading towards Dublin. For some reason I don't want to spend multiple nights in the same city on an initial trip, kind of a feeling out trip to stoke the fire for a return trip with a much better understanding of what is and isn't of interest around the lower part of the island.

Thanks for any and all help.

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

Since you prefer one-night stays I think your "whistle stop" tour of Ireland will have you moving quickly through Ireland in the manner that you like.

On Day 4 when you say do ROK, I assume you mean ROC or Rock of Cashel? Not ROK the Ring of Kerry? Because the Ring of Kerry takes a whole day itself.

You will have to let us know how the pace works for you after you return. I am interested to know your thoughts about driving in Ireland and the time it takes.

Michele

mfreed · Member

Oops!!! You are quite right, ROC!! ROK isn't happening......

I will do my best to write a trip report after we return. And continue looking for feedback before we go......

yesiree · Guru

Looks like your itinerary is coming together. All your plans are doable...I wouldn't want to keep your pace any longer than you have planned, which works out fine because "next trip" you'll have a better sense Irish travel.

Not sure I'm familiar with the "stone cottage" ... do you mean Swiss Cottage?

April/May is a great time to visit gardens (although most are enjoyable nearly year-round)...however, don't "kill" yourself trying to see several. Put four on your list and hope you get to see two...that way if you manage to see more, it'll be like a bonus.

We just did a podcast on Gardens of Ireland. You can have a listen at http://irishfireside.com/41gardens.htm. With it, we've included a map with several of our favorites...Michele helped us out with the list, so you know it's got to be good

mfreed · Member

Boy I'm on a roll!!! To think I read and reread to get this initial message correct and then missing 2 important sights!! Yikes!! Of course you are correct, Swiss Cottage ( I meant "made" of stone, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!!).

Thanks Corey, that really is the idea, get the feel and see as much as reasonable with the intent of learning and tailoring for the next trip!! It is very easy to see how you can stay in one area for multiple days though and is possibly the better way to go BUT live and learn!!

Again, thanks for the garden advice. Sounds like Muckross will be part of the Kilarney day already and Powerscourt is part of the Enniskerry day so we should be set! Throw a nice trail walk in once or twice elsewhere and we're rounding things out.

On the driving from one location to another, correct me if I'm way off base but I'm assuming 3:30-4 hours to get 100-120 miles daily with 4 to 5 hours of sight seeing along the way (meaning stopping for pictures, tours, walks, etc) which puts us into the nights lodging around 5 or 6. For the night we check in, explore the new town a bit, grab a bite and a pint, enjoy some music then turn in. While it might be a quick pace, when you say do'able, is this the kind of plan you're talking about? And is it reasonable to be up and out of a B&B by 9/9:30? I've seen several messages that gave me the impression that was the norm and a couple of others that implied it was a bit early for the breakfasts.

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

There are 100 miles in Ireland and then there are 100 miles in Ireland. wink

It entirely depends on where, the roads, roadworks, obstructions, city or country, etc. Some take longer than others.

It also depends on route. For instance, you can take a few hours to go from Kilkenny to Enniskerry or you can take all day. But basically your trip is doable, if quicker than most of us would do. I understand getting an overview with plans to return again.

Breakfast at B&Bs generally runs from 8 or 8:30 to 9:30 or 10. Depends on the B&B. Some will do an early breakfast if asked. Others won't. The Irish are generally not early risers. They like to enjoy their pubs too much!

Have you read my website page on "B&B Etiquette"? It will answer many questions.

Michele

mfreed · Member

Michele,

I understand the roads make all the difference in the world and I've tried to route on the ones that are pretty yellow lines (although some are narrower yellow than others) and stay away from the gray ones!! (Sorry, this is a straight goggle earth reference and I do know to be wary) I'm also reading on forums, your book, other websites and also maps but I don't think a true newbie, like myself, will be able to truly appreciate how narrow or bad until driving them!!

All that said to ask, on your Kilkenny to Enniskerry example are you saying you could pick a route that while reasonably direct could still take most of a day due to the sheer treachery of the drive?? Just to clarify, no offense or doubt intended as your information is priceless, just trying to fill the information banks. I've learned that asking more questions and fully understanding the answers beats just saying "uh huh" and moving on!!

I have read the Etiquette page but it's been awhile, I'll go back for a refresher!!

Thanks for your help!!

CowboyCraic · Guru

mfreed,

There are very few highways, as we know them here in the states. Most of what you will be driving are similiar to our two-lane backcountry roads, only more narrow. You will have hedges on each side of the road which usually hide stone walls, fences or a deep ditch. You will have steep mountsides or hedgerows on one side and nothing but cliffs and ocean on the other. You will encounter large lorries (trucks), tour buses, native drivers, pedestrians, sheep, cattle, bicyclists, large farming equipment, etc., which will slow you down if not stop you in your tracks. Drving in Ireland is somewhat more intense of an experience than it is here in the states. Just because road looks fairly direct on a map, you have to take in to consideration the small towns you will be driving through, losing your way or getting turned around (happens to the best of us), being sidetracked by the scenery, ruins, small shops, unexpected weather, traffic delays, etc.

A general rule of thumb, which Michele advocates, as most veteran travelers at least here on the forum, is take the miles and divide by a maximum of 35, this will give you a better approximation of your drive time.

I hope This Helps,

Slan Beo (Take Care), Bit

-- Edited by CowboyCraic at 16:03, 2008-04-01

mfreed · Member

Thanks Bit, every little bit of info helps!!

I have been trying to use 30 MPH as my benchmark for all travels, I've shot for roughly 120 mile max for route planning to that nights lodging, several are a little less but I think I'm under 120 every day. I do realize that could mean upwards of 4 hours in the car daily but with stops for sights every hour or so I "hope" it will be OK.

CowboyCraic · Guru

120 miles is a good benchmark. I think you might find in some areas that the stops are more frequent than every hour. It is quite the norm when we are traveling in Ireland to hear "Stop! Turn Around! I want to get a picture of/go explore........" or "Oh, that road looks promising!"

Keep in mind that most B&Bs have a witching hour of 6 PM for check-in. If you think you might be a wee bit late, a phone call to let them know is always a good idea.

One instance of such courtesy, I called ahead to our next B&B to advise that, due to one too many faery-led moments, we would possibly be a bit late in arriving. We arrived at half past six to find a note on the door, which I still have as a momento. The note read "Nip around to the Pub and they will give you a key to get in to the house. Your rooms are upstairs and on the left, make yourself at home or come join us at the recital" Needless to say, we put away our luggage and joined our hosts and half the town at the "recital" which turned out to be one of the best nights of Traditional Music,dance and poetry we would encounter on that journey.

There are moments like these on all of our journeys traversing Ireland, simply because we slowed our pace and allowed room for them. I would say 4 hours in the car should be your maximum during your travels.

I was going to advise you to keep an eye out for the Strawberry stands along the roadsides but then I remembered that you are heading over at the end of this month. I don't think they will have the strawberries yet. cry

Should you luck out and see a sign for strawberries, make sure you stop. They are simply beyond compare.

Slan Beo, Bit

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

The lines on the maps can be deceptive. For instance, I took a "gray line" road that looked relatively straight and direct -- although a country road -- and it was anything but. It went straight up and straight down, it went left and right, it took hairpin turns most of the way. I didn't know if I was going north, south, east or west, but was obviously doing all four cardinal points at once. Once I got onto the main road my husband looked at me and said "don't lets ever take that road again." I said, "It looked straight on the map." His comment was, "If they drew that road on the map as it actually was they would have run out of ink."

Mind you, I don't think you would find that road without my tellling you where it is. (If Bill is lurking on the forum he might want to know.) I think you will be fine on your trip. As for the comment about going from Kilkenny to Enniskerry, there are a few different routes. Going through the mountains is more direct. Taking the main roads through New Ross, Enniscourthy, Arklow and then branching off into Avoca and Laragh presents other opportunities for sightseeing along the way, but is not most direct.

Don't get me started on Google. A while back they directed forum members to "swim across the Atlantic to France" in order to reach Ireland from NY. I think someone there was having a joke. Currently they show a ferry going from the ROK to Dingle. Doesn't exist!

As Bit aways says, sometimes the "fairy-led" moments are the best.

Michele

mfreed · Member

Thanks again Bit for the info and the reiteration that plans looked OK. I am planning to take a map for each B&B along with the phone # so I will be able to call if need be but based on several statements I've read both here and on other boards, is it a good plan to call ahead just to let them know? I don't mind calling but don't want to impose if it's really not that important. I was planning to send a confirmation e-mail the Monday before we leave since e-mail access will be gone starting Wednesday of that week.

I'm looking forward to the "stop, turn around I want a pic of that" moments as that seems to be one of the many memorable moments of a trip like this... along with the lost along the winding, I have no idea where we are roads we are bound to find.

Michele, As I'm sure you're aware my gray line/yellow line comment was tongue in cheek and I must agree with your goggle comments since some of those lines go out over the ocean without a bridge!!! YIKES!!!

Now that our our lodging points are nailed down and confirmed it's time to chart the routes, sights and stops while getting from one place to the next. One thing I've found, the Heritage card and the Heritage book, I know it's two different sources, both look appealing but also look like your plans need to include very specific sights to take advantage of them. My question..... It looks like the card is a very good deal and has enough included places to be worthwhile, if planned for, and is best purchased on the ground at the first Heritage sight, does this seem correct? And the Heritage book, while cheaper seemed like it had less sights I would use but needed to be bought online before you go if you choose, does that sound right? My route planning seemed to include attractions for both of these sources before even looking through them so I can only assume they're, in general, worthwhile for the average Ireland tourist.

Looking forward to the "fairy-led" moments and will also keep an eye out for strawberry stands if it's not to early!!

CowboyCraic · Guru

Only, as a rule, if you think you will be more than a wee bit late, would I call ahead or, if it is a weekend booking, I would call ahead that morning. There might be road delays that they know of or detours and a heads up is always appreciative. I remember one instance when I called ahead and was told "call when you are almost in to town and I will send my husband, as there is a cyclist rally in town and he will bring you in the back way." The "back way" was quite an experience when driving a small car, as it was a single track through a cow pasture.

I cannot say either way on either booklet/card, as I have not used either one. You cannot miss the Strawberry Stands if they are out, as there will be signs, similar to the Burma Shave signs, indicating their location or a Giant Red Strawberry sandwich board sign.

I am tacking on a few pictures from our "faery led" adventures. The top one was whilst in Co. Mayo. The second was at a delightful "Faery" park that I doubt I could find again and wish I could, also up North. The third, St. John's Well on the edge of St John's Point Church, which I am also not sure I could find again but was somewhere in Co. Donegal.

Slan Beo, Bit

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

You are correct that you can buy a Heritage Card at most any of their sites on arrival. The Heritage Island brochure (many 2-for-1 and other discounts) is sent free to those who order my book or have me do a deluxe itinerary. There are many other places that offer it too.

They both cover different things, so determine what you want to see first. Then you can see which is most beneficial.

Michele

mfreed · Member

Michele,

I ordered and received your book last month, are you saying I should receive the Heritage Island brochure seperate from your book? If so, it hasn't arrived yet.

Mark

Michele Erdvig · Host

mfreed,

I was out of the brochures and awaiting a new shipment a while back. Instead I put in book orders a green Heritage Island pass. It was a single sheet instead of a brochure. Do you have that? If not, email me your address and I will send you one.

Michele

mfreed · Member

Michele,

Thank you so much for pointing this out, yes of course you included it and I was just too scatter brained to realize what it was. I just read it and am I correct in assuming, as it says, I just need to show that single sheet and the discounts will be available? If so, that seems much easier and will be great!! I've already printed all the sights, from there website, that fall anywhere near our chosen route so I'm covered.

Mark

Michele Erdvig · Host

Mark,

They changed the name of the discount brochure this year. To be on the safe side go to this website: http://www.irelandvisitordiscounts.com/ Click to download the current pass and print. It is not the glossy full-color brochure but will suffice. You need only to show it to get your discounts.

Michele