This appears to be the residence of my great great grandfather and his family. The information was gathered by my aunt, which she found at the O'Keefe Memorial Institute. We do not see the name "Glaundahy" on any of our maps. Can any of our Ireland Experts help us locate this? Bob, during our exchanges last summer, I think we discovered that your wife's kinfolk and ours are from nearly the same region. We are trying to do some extensive research, so that our next trip to Ireland can be to county Cork, and hopefully can find the exact spot our relatives had lived. Thanks! Dan
It is county Cork, and the baptism records of Jeremiah Murphy (born 1840, baptised 1842) son of Dennis born (1808) were found in Dromtarrif Parish. However, after visiting this rural Catholic Church with my parents in 2006, we were unable to find any grave markers in the cemetary that would be for those of the previous generation. There is a famine pit on the other side of the road....maybe that's why we seem to be at a dead end. The nearest decent sized town to Dromtarrif Church is Kanturk, west of Mallow. It looks like it would be north of Millstreet where Bob's kinfolk are. Newmarket is just north of Dromtarrif and is mentioned in regard to the O'Keefe Memorial Institute. The Lower Blackwater river is also mentioned in some of our documents.
If the famine pit is indeed the gravesite of the previous generation, we would still like to be able to find the plot of land or even the home/buildings where they had lived. It is possible that they had moved to that area from elsewhere in Ireland. We also have some hope of finding distant cousins still living in Ireland. It might be like looking for a needle in a haystack, since "Murphy" is the 2nd most common last name in county Cork! Hope this extra info. helps! Dan
Thanks for the additional info. I'm sure that Bob will comment when he sees it. You have the same problem I do with having ancestors with very common names. The more you have to sift through the bigger the task. I have yet to get into genealogy. Maybe when I retire and have more time.
I DID see this and HAVE been poking about, but haven't uncovered anything YET ...
Heading off to Disney for the long weekend with wife, daughter and two grand-daughters to semi-celebrate our 39th Anniversary, so will be 'OFF' the boards for the next few days ...
I'm checking through my #79 Discovery Series map, but will need to check out the #72 and #80 maps as well to get a DEFINITIVE answer.
As we discussed before, Parish records for Dromtarrif are likely in Banteer, though they MAY have been moved to Kanturk. For that time period, grave markers are pretty unlikely, unless your ancestors were particularly wealthy Catholics.
I will also look around for my contact information for the Records Office in Cork as that is where I believe all the pre-1900 Death Records are kept.
By the way -- I bought my wife a Kindle2 International, with the 6" screen, as an Anniversary present. Does anyone here have one -- and MORE IMPORTANTLY -- any recommendations for any Irish-Related Kindle Books?????
Bob
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Forgive me if I wax, proffessorily, but I thought to make this both pertinent to your inquiries, as well as enlightening (hopefully!) to all that might wish to research their roots. You had mentioned having reached a 'Dead End' with your research, after finding the following: Glaundahy Dromtarrif Parish: Jeremiah Murphy (born 1840, baptised 1842) son of Dennis born (1808)
I have spent some not insignificant amount of time, trying to ascertain the location of that Townland and am sorry to report NO success.
According to the sources that I have access to, there is NO Townland extant, anywhere in all of Munster.
THAT is the BAD news. The GOOD news is that just because there is no record of such an area, it does NOT mean that it doesn't exist.
Can I hear you say, "WHAT?"???
Let me give you an example: My wife's Grandfather was born on 23 June 1880, in Ivale, Kilcorney, County Cork, Ireland. We KNOW this, as we have a signed and Officially Sealed, long-Form Birth Record to PROVE that it is so.
The problem is, the Townland of Ivale also fails to exist, according to those same sources that likewise deny Glaundahy.
Now, I have walked the byways of Ivale, gazed across the green, munificent fields at the grandure and SPOKEN with living, local residents that have assured me that I was standing within the confines of Ivale -- yet, the Ordinance Survey Map of the area (#79) and all other references refer to that area as Brookpark.
This, in spite of the very energetic effort of the Irish Government to revert all placenames to their original, Irish wording.
Some BASICS, first:
According to my digitized copy of 'Francis Guy's County And City Of Cork Directory 1875-1876' , County Cork encompassed 2,700 square miles, 1,849,686 acres and was 110 miles East to West (Youghal to Dursey Head) and 56 miles North to South (Charleville to Old Head). The county was made up of 23 baronies, 243 Civil parishes, 5,478 Townlands, 14 Poor Law Unions ENTIRELY in Cork and 5 others that were shared with other Counties. Cork was also divided into 3 Dioceses - Cork, Cloyne and Ross. Additionally, the parrishes of Drishane, Cullen, Dromtarriff, Kilmeen and Nohavaldaly were in the Protestant Episcopalian Diocese of Ardfert and Aghadoe. Those five, PLUS Kilcorney, Killaconenagh and kilnamanaghare are ALSO in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Kerry.
Population, according to the Official Census Figures:
From those numbers we can see a HINT of the devastation that the Famine caused. Whole communities may well have disappeared. Then, too, DESPITE the obcessive penchant for record-keeping by the English during their rule over Ireland, SPELLING was NEVER a high priority!
{NOT THAT I AM IN ANY POSITION TO THROW STONES ON THAT ISSUE!!}
As a case in point, my wife's Great-Grandfather had 13 KNOWN children and we have obtained birth records for many of them. All that we have were recorded by only TWO men (John Leader, MD and his son, Richard Radley Leader, MD). In the space marked "Mother's maiden Name", the spelling of her name (Lehane) varies, from child to child. It appears as 'Lehane', 'Lyhane', 'Lehayne' . i once met an elderly man who told me that his father's Birth Record gave the surname of DOODY -- yet the father's brother, only a few years older, was recorded as Dowd. Such was common, as the Anglo-Irish Registrars attempted to WRITE - in English -- what they HEARD -- in Irish.
"Remember that some places have reverted to Irish names since the creation of the Index and be aware of the various spellings of place names on different maps and other publications. Consult the Ordnance Survey Name Books to find out about different spellings. Type Ordnance Survey Name Books in the title field of the catalogue to get a list of our holdings. For Co. Cork you can also consult Townlands (alphabetically arranged) County Cork: with parish, postal district, district electoral division, registrar's district and rural or urban district. It is held in map cabinet row 28, column 4, top shelf. The shelfmark is TR 914.195 TOWN "
Here is the most commonly referenced site to look up Townland information:
Civil Parish Barony PLU Province Dromtarriff Duhallow Kanturk Munster Dromtarriff Duhallow Millstreet Munster
Barony PLU Province Duhallow Kanturk Munster Duhallow Mallow Munster Duhallow Millstreet Munster
PLU is the Poor Law Union.
As I said, I attempted NUMEROUS spellings and permutations of Glaundahy -- with NO results. From the website 'HELP' page:
"Please be aware of the notice on the IreAtlas search form page indicating that the search engine on the IreAtlas Townland Database has been modified to produce a much faster search. This increased speed can only be obtained when using the "Search Method" of Must match EXACTLY. Be aware that the "Search Method" has been modified to make this the Default "Search Method". You must also be aware that this method of searching IS case sensistive. This means that you MUST enter the townland with the first letter as upper case and the remaining letters as lower case or your search will fail.
After having the IreAtlas Townland Database online for over 6 years, it has become very evident that the one issue that is a major roadblock to most researchers is the issue associated with spelling. I will not go into detail here in this page as to what has caused these spelling issues, my intent is to make the researcher aware that they exist and that they MUST be considered when you do not get the expected results from your search. To add further support to this statement, I can tell you that more than 95% of the requests that come in to me for assistance in finding a researchers "elusive" townland, have resulted in the townland being spelled different from the way that the researcher entered it into the search engine.
This issue of spelling was known when the IreAtlas townland database was designed, and it was because of this issue that the search form has been designed with the dropdown selectable choices for the "Search Method". An observation that I can pass along to the researcher that is using this database is that the spelling issues that I have been asked to assist with are generally small spelling differences that many times only involve one or two letters in the submitted placename. This condition can easily be worked around by entering just a few of the letters in the spelling of the placename from the beginning or the end of the placename.
Sometimes as few as 1 or 2 letters may be required to get around the spelling issue. If you enter a few letters from the beginning of the placename, then you would select "At BEGINNING of field" from the "Search Method" drop down menu. If you enter a few letters from the ending of the placename, then you would select "At END of field". To make your task a little easier, you should make sure that you click the small "Sort By" box next to the Townland field. This will order the list of returned townlands alphabetically and allow you to scroll through the returned list in an orderly fashion.
The researcher should be aware that this method of searching will return a much larger list than trying to search using the exact spelling, however it is far better to get a list of possible townlands that you can select from than to get no list at all when you use the exact spelling and your spelling turns out to be wrong.
The following is a few examples from county Roscommon that you can use as a guide that will help to demonstrate these spelling issues
USER'S PLACENAME DATABASE SPELLING ENTER FOR BEGINNING ENTER FOR ENDING COMMENTS Loughglyn Loughglinn "lough" "glyn" "glyn" would not find the placename, but "lough" would Gralla Grallagh "gral" "la" "la" would not find the placename, but "gral" would Cloonacarow Cloonacarrow "cloon" "carow" "carow" would not find the placename, but "cloon" would Lislee Lislea "lis" "lee" "lee" would not find the placename, but "lis" would
And of course I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you could be one of the remaining 5% who have been given the name of a townland from a family member, and it is completely wrong. This situation can result in no records being returned at all. There is absolutely no way that I can help you with this situation, it is going to take additional research on your part in order to move forward with your search.
I can not emphasize enough the number of times that the simple spelling issues have resulted in an email coming into my mailbox. It is with deep regret that I must inform the research community that I will no longer be able to respond to these type of requests for assistance. As mentioned above, the search engine has the ability to perform the search even when you are not sure of the complete spelling.
The administrative tasks associated with the normal maintenance on the Leitrim-Roscommon server have reached a level that make it impossible for me to respond to these requests for assistance.....there is only one of me, and so many of you!
I wish you all good luck with your research"
I DID find also find THESE references -- BOTH reference the SAME book -- :
GENERAL ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO THE TOWNLANDS AND TOWNS, PARISHES, AND BARONIES OF IRELAND (Based on the 1851 census). 968 pages. Originally published by the Stationary Office, Dublin in 1861.
"This is an essential reference work for Irish genealogists, listing all of the townland names in a single alphabetical sequence. The Irish townland is the basic geographic division into which all parishes are divided. There are over 64,000 townlands in Ireland, each averaging just a few hundred acres or less. It is essential to identify the townland of residence for Irish ancestors when doing genealogy because many land, census, estate, and other records are organized by townland. Also, it is often possible to distinguish between two persons of the same name in a parish only if the townland of residence is known. Once the townland is known, this reference work will give its exact location, citing a map reference, the size of the townland in acres, the county, barony and parish within which it is located, and the Poor Law Union it is in. This reference work also has a complete alphabetical list of the almost 3,000 civil parishes in Ireland, citing for each a map reference, size in acres, the county, barony and Poor Law Union in which it is found. Finally, there is an alphabetical list of the approximately 325 baronies into which Ireland was once divided, listing the map reference, size, county and Poor Law Union.
Availability and Price: SORRY! Microfiche Title No Longer Available."
The referenced book IS available, however, for purchase, from Amazon Books. Price, NEW, is $60:
So most of what I've detailed shows what I did NOT find, my EXCUSES as to why I failed and what MIGHT be available.
Here is what I DID find -- (Again, according to Guy's Directory):
Four towns of interest, Geographically, to Murphy research are listed -- Kanturk, Dromagh, Banteer and Millstreet -- all within reasonable distance to Dromtarriff Parish. Town Significant Landowners Address or Townland
Banteer Murphy, John Killen Murphy, John Dromskehy Murphy, Laurence Glen south
Dromagh Murphy, Daniel (Reps of) Clonbannin Murphy, Matthew Coolclough Murphy, Patrick Dromskehy Kanturk Murphy,Cornelius Farrandoyle Murphy, Mary Lackeel Murphy, Matthew Meelaherragh Murphy, Patrick Garrison Murphy, Thomas Kilcaskin
Millstreet Murphy, Andrew Knockduff lower Murphy, Cornelius Boolamore Murphy, Denis Ahane lower Murphy, Denis (Matt) * * Coolykerrane Murphy, Jerimiah Coomlegane Murphy, John Coomlegane Murphy, John C Claraghbeg Murphy, John Denis Knockagallane Murphy, John H Ballydaly Murphy, Patrick Dooneen
* * General rule of Irish Names / Nicknames is that if there were two different men with the same name, the man's father's name was added to HIS -- So, Denis (Matt) was PROBABLY the son of Matt. This MAY also have been true of John Denis???
I also found THESE Murphy listings in GUY'S:
NAME ADDRESS EXTENT RATEABLE VALUE Murphy, Thomas & John Carragaige 57 acres 0 Rood 0 Perches 6 Pound 5 Shillings Murphy, John T Kanturk 323 3 35 195 5 Murphy John D Knuckgullane, Millstreet 13 1 5 4 5 Murphy, Eugene Dereen 42 0 30 17 15
These were men whom either OWNED the land, or held leases in excess of 30 years.
Dunno how much this helps, or if it further muddies the waters???
I seem to remember that we discussed a Carragaige connection, at ONE point? If so, that MIGHT be your best avenue at finding a 'Living Link', given the above info.
Bob
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Murphy, Denis Rafeen Liscleary Cork Murphy, Denis Ballyveerane Macroom Cork Murphy, Denis Carrigagulla Macroom Cork Murphy, Denis Pound Lake Macroom Cork Murphy, Denis Sleveen Lane Macroom Cork Murphy, Denis Village of Clashavodig, Little Island Cork Ballytrasna Murphy, Denis Village of Island Cross Little Island Cork Roads, Ballystrana Murphy, Denis Derrygowna Kilshannig Cork Murphy, Denis Monanveel Kilshannig Cork Murphy, Denis Village of Ballydahin Mallow Cork Murphy, Denis Glashaboy South Dunbulloge Cork
Thanks to both Bob and Cowboy Craic for all your help! Wow, Bob! Lots of information for one post! We appreciate all the effort that went into it. This gives us the courage to press on. Dan
You are more than welcome. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help.
Michele --
My wife would actually say that what I do is symptomatic of my A.D.D. -- by fixating on SOME things, generally to the complete exclusion of all else, until my curiousity or interest either wanes -- or I get distracted by something else ---
Oooh -- shiny!!!!
It is precisely why I could never do what you do ( and with such grace and apparent ease! ) --
But, that does NOT mean that I am TOTALLY without skills or redeeming qualities -- in SPITE of my flaws.
In point of fact, I HAVE written -- not one, but TWO books -- fictionally chronicling my wife's undiscovered family throughout Irish history. I finished the first (1798) in November of '02 and the second (1800 - 1850), in May of '05. Had a couple dozen copies printed up, locally, for the family.
The thing is, though ---
It's MEANT to be a TRILOGY ...
Bob
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By the Griffith Valuation in the late 1840s, no Murphys are listed in Glandaeagh.
The online index of Diocese of Kerry church records at churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie : I do not see the baptism of Jeremiah that you reference in 1842, but I did see baptism of several children of a Denis Murphy and Mary Foley in Dromtarriff. Is this your line?
Dromtarriff RC parish, children of Denis Murphy & Mary Foley: Baptism of CATHERINE MURPHY of GLAUNDAEGH on 17 December 1843 sponsors Daniel Foley, Gobnet Foley Baptism of TIMOTHY MURPHY of GLAUNDAUGH on 23 December 1845 sponsors David Hallanan, Abigail Hallanan Baptism of DERMOT MURPHY of GLAUNDAIACH on 5 April 1842 sponsors John Foley, Mary Connell
Not sure if this is the same couple as there is a 7 year gap; recorded at Dromtarriff: Baptism of MARY MURPHY of FORTGRADY on 4 April 1852 parents: Denis Murphy, Mary Foley sponsor Abigail Foley Fortgrady is a townland in Dromtarriff Parish.
I have Murphys from the Millstreet area which is very close to Dromtarriff.
Good luck Keri
-- Edited by KMaurus on Sunday 2nd of March 2014 03:58:37 PM
-- Edited by KMaurus on Sunday 2nd of March 2014 04:33:01 PM
We are still looking for information! I'm pretty sure you are on the right track! We have learned that Dermot is the Irish name for Jeremiah. We spent a week in Millstreet on a geneolgy mission and did get to see the actual baptismal record for Dermot(Jeremiah) at Dromtariff Parish, a rural church just north of Millstreet. We had hoped to find relatives there but the secretary at the Parish (maiden name Murphy!) was unable to come up with any leads. We are also seeking baptismal, wedding, and burial records for Denis Murphy's parents, Patrick and Johanna Murphy, (or even Mary Folley's Parents.) We speculate that they may be buried in a famine pit. We have examined micro film of birth, wedding and death records in time frames that might coincide with these events, in the Dublin and Cork libraries, but no success.
If you know of relatives of Denis Murphy/Mary Folley currently living in the Millstreet area, we would be very interested in getting in contact with them!
Dan
-- Edited by murphy on Sunday 2nd of March 2014 05:12:53 PM
Roy, the reason your wife is unfamiliar with that town land is because, according to the secretary at Dromtarriff, that town land was dissolved and put into another town land years ago, which one I'm not sure.
It is possible that we have the wrong name (Patrick) as Denis's father. We need to explore the "John Murphy" lead! Exciting stuff!
Keri, I sent you a private message on this websight with contact information.
Dan
Dan, I just sent off an email to you.
Just a note: Without knowing where the tidbit that Denis is the son of Patrick came from and the surety level of that info, the John Murphy listed in 1827 Tithe Applotment could be brother, father, or even cousin of Patrick (rather than Denis' father).
Roy, the reason your wife is unfamiliar with that town land is because, according to the secretary at Dromtarriff, that town land was dissolved and put into another town land years ago, which one I'm not sure. It is possible that we have the wrong name (Patrick) as Denis's father. We need to explore the "John Murphy" lead! Exciting stuff! Keri, I sent you a private message on this websight with contact information. Dan